[Leica] Re: Ergonomic shortfalls

[grduprey at mchsi.com (grduprey@mchsi.com)]

My thoughts exactly Ted.  All these nay sayers need to just go out and use 
their cameras.  They are the same as those complaining that Leica has not 
produced a modern digital camera, and now that Leica has, they just 
complaing that Leica has sold out.  While I may have to wait a bit longer 
than you for my M8, I will be indeed one of those who buy one.  Can't wait.  
;-)

Gene


-------------- Original message from Ted Grant <tedgrant@shaw.ca>: 
-------------- 


> Lawrence Zeitlin offered: 
> Subject: [Leica] Re: Ergonomic shortfalls 
> 
> >>2. Viewfinder location - Looking at the camera from the back, the 
> > left hand location of the viewfinder means that to use the right eye the 
> > camera has to be held unsupported on the right side of the face. This 
> > promotes camera shake. <<< 
> 
> Like Larry old buddy you have used an M camera before haven't you? It's 
> always been like that for right eyed shooters! Big deal and many great 
> photographs have been taken & without any quivering shakes! So what's the 
> problem? 
> 
> >>Those fortunate enough to be left eyed can 
> > brace the camera against the face to achieve added support at the cost 
> > of 
> > getting nose oil over the backside Vulcanite.<<< 
> 
> hey trust me there are absolutely no advantages to using your left eye! 
> Because to shoot quickly as many photojournalists do, you'll automatically 
> gouge your right eye out advancing film!!:- Trust me 50 plus years 
> experince 
> as a left one eyed photojournalist! :-( 
> 
> >3. Off center tripod mount - a never ending frustration for tripod 
> >users.<<< 
> 
> Although I've on a few occasions used an M on tripod... like really it's a 
> hand held machine from 1/8th to 1/1000th! Like is the off centre holed 
> base 
> plate that big a deal? After all the camera has about as much use in 
> reality 
> on a tripod, as tripod on a lake. 
> 
> > 4. Rear flash contact - most civilized cameras have the flash contact on 
> > the front. Leica flash users risk jabbing an eye with a protruding flash 
> > plug.<<< 
> 
> Flash??? Flash!!! ??? Aaaackkkk!! My heavens man where have you been lo 
> these long years? FLASH?, TWINKIE LIGHTS? On an M camera? Blasphemy my 
> good 
> man! :-) Heresy! You should be burned at the stake! ;-) 
> 
> >>> 5. Tiny controls - The small knobs and dials are impossible to 
> > operate with gloves. As for mittens, fuggedaboudit.<<< 
> 
> Oh bollix my good fellow, all your complaints are merely whining in the 
> night! 
> 
> Instead of whining and pointing out so called deficiencies in your mind 
> most 
> of us have totally ignored them for many years while in the throws of 
> making 
> them work just fine from the heat of the day, the darkness of night, to 
> the 
> frozen north pole! And done all that without a bloody whine! Mitts on and 
> all! 
> 
> We just got and get on with the job before us.... taking pictures. 
> 
> Now for the M8? Hey when I have one in hand I'll proceed shooting in 
> exactly 
> the same manner as I've done for many many years. And probably smile!:-) 
> 
> Larry sir, you on the other hand should not even consider an M8 or any 
> other 
> M camera, as obviously they have so many short comings they must give you 
> a 
> headache every time you put one to your eye, left or right! ;-) 
> 
> ted 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > On Sep 13, 2006, at 4:08 PM, Alan wrote: 
> > 
> >> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 
> >> , 
> >>> 3. Do I want to put up with many of the ergonomic shortfalls inherent 
> >>> in the Leica's 50 year old design? 
> >> 
> >>> Larry Z 
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> >> -------- 
> >> 
> >> I'm not in line; have the cameras I want. I use older Leica M's (and a 
> >> IIIf) more for the bodies than the lenses; I find the ergonomics of M 
> >> Leicas very nice. Never lusted after another camera once I got my M3. 
> >> (Well, maybe my '59 Rolleiflex). 
> > 
> > Ergonomic shortfalls: 
> > 
> > 1. Film loading - do I have to say more? 
> > 2. Viewfinder location - Looking at the camera from the back, the left 
> > hand location of the viewfinder means that to use the right eye the 
> > camera has to be held unsupported on the right side of the face. This 
> > promotes camera shake. This was acceptable with the M3 since the .92 
> > rangefinder permitted the photographer to keep the left eye open. With 
> > the lesser magnification of succeeding models this advantage 
> > disappeared. 
> 
> 
> > 3. Off center tripod mount - a never ending frustration for tripod 
> > users. 
> > 4. Rear flash contact - most civilized cameras have the flash contact on 
> > the front. Leica flash users risk jabbing an eye with a protruding flash 
> > plug. 
> 
> > 5. Tiny controls - The small knobs and dials are impossible to operate 
> > with gloves. As for mittens, fuggedaboudit. 
> > 
> > From a ergonomic point of view, the CL was the best Leica made. Even 
> > though the viewfinder was still on the side, the camera body is short 
> > enough so that the overhang is tolerable. The tripod socket is center 
> > mounted and the flash contact is in the hot shoe where God meant it to 
> > be. The back removes for easy film loading. This has the added advantage 
> > that the camera does not have to be partly disassembled to remove a film 
> > chip. There are some ergonomic problems with the CL of course. The meter 
> > turns on only when the winding lever is extended. For a left eyed 
> > photographer this puts the extended winding lever directly into his 
> > right 
> > eyeball. Even Leica recognized this problem after the camera was 
> > released 
> > and would fix the camera at no charge so the meter was always on. The 
> > downside was a shorter battery life. 
> > 
> > None of these ergonomic deficiencies matters a whit to photographic 
> > quality but they do make the camera harder to use. The biggest ergonomic 
> > problem, the needle threading film loading procedure is a moot point 
> > with 
> > the M8 but most of the other problems will still be there. Most of the 
> > design compromises on the older camera were mandated by the internal 
> > arrangement of the mechanical components, mandates which are no longer 
> > necessary in this electronic age. Leica could have taken the opportunity 
> > to refresh the 50 year old design of the M series - but then it wouldn't 
> > be a Leica, would it. 
> > 
> > Larry Z 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Leica Users Group. 
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 
> > 
> > 
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> 
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