Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/09/11
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Hoppy, I guess that I have too much English blood in me. Sometimes, good enough at 1.4 is better than waiting for F4 and 1/250. If I see something that elicits interest, then I will attempt an image. Many times crap, but sometimes delight. And that is the real draw of digital, you have a 600 exposure roll of film that is both color and B&W and it works at 100 to 3200. Plus, you don't have to wait to see whether the idea worked or didn't. Please bear in mind that I am still almost exclusively film based. But the electrons are calling to me and the silver chlorides and bromides are playing coy. I have to call NY to get them, I have to call elsewhere to get the proper stimulants to get them to respond. And the electrons call to me... Don don.dory@gmail.com On 9/11/06, G Hopkinson <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > Don, I do understand what you are saying regarding low noise at 400 ISO. > Still, where the light allows the lower the better, I think. Just as I'd > rather use Velvia/Astia or Delta 100/Neopan Acros than 400 > ISO or higher films, I mean. > You are saying that there is no equivalent of a 1.4 35 asph for you or the > f2 28 for B.D. > OK. Keep on using film just as long as we can get it. > I had a 1.2 Nikkor amongst my (Nikon manual focus) fifties once. Danged if > I could use that narrow DOF effectively. I liked the 1.4s > but just mainly for the bright finder on those cameras. > > Of course, if you guys are perpetually working wide open at 1600 ISO we're > pointing our cameras at different stuff. I think I have > to place my amateur self in the Germanic, highest possible quality, 250th > or better, down a stop or so, really should have brought > the tripod camp. > > Without wishing to give anyone indigestion, I think that the four thirds > stuff is like Linux vs Windows! :-) I mean technically very > interesting and clever but not the mainstream. > I think Leica's and Panasonic's entries there are just keeping their > options open. > > Cheers > Hoppy > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org [mailto: > lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of > Don Dory > Sent: Monday, 11 September 2006 21:46 > To: Leica Users Group > Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Leica] M8 lens dilemma > > Hoppy, > With almost everybody an effective 400 ISO is no different in output than > settings closer to 100. On the Canon sensors, even 1600 ISO doesn't seem > to > affect anything but the darkest shadows. > > The crop factor means that there is no fast 35mm equivalent which is an > important focal length for many people. Also, for shooters like B.D. who > habitually use a 28mm as their body cap they go from F2 to 2.8 and if they > were already at 1600 there doesn't leave much room to shoot as they have > before. > > I see this as interesting as up to now, we have been given better and > better > tools. Films go faster and better, lenses got faster and then faster and > better. It is hard to believe that the 21 Biogon was the widest lens you > could get in 1954 with the exception of some Hypergons for large > format. As > the MBA's keep the R&D focused on what will sell in sufficient quantities > (12-24 at F4) instead of 10-40 2.8-3.5) we don't see the extremes like we > used to. In the middle fifities you could buy an F1.1 lens for your NIkon > from Nikon or Zunow. Zeiss brought out the superlative 21 Biogon. We had > 75 F1.5's that were really good and 85 F1.5's that had charachter. Yes > Canon is coming out with a 50mm F1.2 but they were doing that three > decades > ago. > > Olympus I think has missed the boat with their 4/3 system for many of us. > If they had produced a 25mm F1.4 or a 50mm F1.4 then I think the Leica > style > shooters would have migrated in large numbers. Instead they made some > really good long glass that was fast, but the sports shooters needed more > frames per second and the wildlife people wanted/needed more than 5MP so > Olympus languishes at under 3% market share in Japan and elsewhere. > > Don > don.dory@gmail.com > > > On 9/10/06, G Hopkinson <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > > > Don, > > I don't think shooting at 800 to 1600 ought to be the routine thing, > more > > like emergency back up, accepting the lesser quality > > because that's all the light there is. > > I'd be wanting to operate at ISO 100 to 200 for lowest possible noise > and > > maintain the apertures as what I'd use for 35mm, One stop > > or so below maximum. That's what we pay the big bucks for with Leica > > glass. Of course large DOF is not always desirable either. > > Or is my film mindset not valid in the newest sensors world? > > I think it would be market suicide to make glass in M mount with an > image > > circle too small for 35mm. > > No way Solms could afford to alienate their existing customer base in > the > > niche. They are never going to compete directly with the > > huge Japanese camera and electrical goods companies. > > > > However, with their commitment to four thirds they still have an avenue > > for dedicated glass for digital. Lots of Olympus and > > Panasonic etc folks would be happy to consider Solms designs for their > > four thirds cameras, in my opinion. Plus of course the > > compact digitals shared with Panasonic. > > > > Regarding the expected crop factor which seems pretty certain, I thought > > that the f2 28 asph (and the new 2.8?) fitted neatly into > > the 35 slot, with the 21 or 24 working for around the 28 and the f2 or > > f1.4 35 becoming the new 50. I'd be pretty happy with the > > current 50's as lovely portrait lenses, I'm sure. I imagine those folks > > with the Noctilux would be downright cheerful, using them > > for available light portraits > > > > Cheers > > Hoppy, > > 2 Aussie cents worth. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org [mailto: > > lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of > > Don Dory > > Sent: Monday, 11 September 2006 11:02 > > To: Leica Users Group > > Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Leica] M8 lens dilemma > > > > Leica faces an interestin conundrum. If they bite the bullet and make > > lenses for cropped sensors they will relcaim the small camera/high > > performance position they held in the thirties and beyond. However, > > thousands of Leicanistas will shriek in rage at being betrayed. So, in > > all > > probablity no F1.4 26mm lens or for that matter no 21mm f2 lens. > > > > On the bright side, the ability to shoot at 800 to 1600 ameliorates the > > need > > for fast lenses as far as capturing the image but we still have issues > > with > > limiting DOF intentionally. On the down side, I am going to have to > bite > > the bullet and acquire a 35 F1.4 as the 50mm perspective is the one I > use > > most. Possibly the C/V 40mm F1.4 with the crop the edges won't matter. > > > > Don > > don.dory@gmail.com > > > > > > On 9/10/06, Aram Langhans <dnaplasmid@compwrx.com> wrote: > > > > > > 35! 32! 37! What's a few millimeters among friends??? > > > Aram > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:04:45 -0400 > > > > From: Stan Yoder <vze2myh5@verizon.net> > > > > Subject: [Leica] M8 lens dilemma > > > > To: lug@leica-users.org > > > > Message-ID: <45047DED.7050007@verizon.net> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > > > > > > So what are yunz (Pittsburghese for 'you-all') planning to do for > the > > > > equivalent of a 35 on a film M? > > > > > > > > The 24 Elmarit-ASPH becomes a 32, and a 28 becomes a 37. > > > > > > > > Stan Yoder > > > > The Burgh > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >