Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/06/24
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]No, I only read B.D.'s reaction :-) I tend to skip non-photo related posts longer than one paragraph. At 07:30 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote: >You two READ that screed? > >Jim > > >Richard wrote: > >>B.D. I'd be upset too except I know where the "delete" key is. :-) >>At 06:33 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote: >> >>>So once again, we read a thousand words of MJS's opinions on a subject, >>>only >>>to be told the rest of us should confine our opinions on the same subject >>>to >>>the Forum? >>>It would be funny, were it not so sad.... >>> >>> >>>On 6/24/06 7:56 PM, "Marc James Small" <msmall@aya.yale.edu> wrote: >>> >>> > At 04:39 PM 6/24/06 -0400, Jim Shulman wrote: >>> >> I understand that's the whole point of this project--that gun >>> ownership is a >>> >> lot more "normal" than most of us non-owners would imagine. While >>> the usual >>> >> media image of a gun owner is some wild-eyed fanatic living in a >>> >> garret, >>> >> Kyle is showing otherwise--that it's as ubiquitous as owning a Toro >>> riding >>> >> mower or Veg-o-matic. >>> >> >>> >> That's not to say more desirable than owning the mower or Popeil >>> items--he's >>> >> not making judgments about that--but it is rather remarkable in that >>> he's >>> >> putting faces on what had been anonymity. >>> > >>> > A number of us on the LUG are gun owners. I don't hunt but I do target >>> > shoot on occasion. (My rifle is a 1909 Argentine Mauser rechambered >>> to .30 >>> > - '06 I picked up years back from my Secretary's father as part of a >>> > fee. >>> > I had a 3X-9X by 30mm scope mounted on it -- the scope was made by the >>> > Arsenal folks in the Ukraine, the guys who gave us those Contax RF >>> clones, >>> > the Kiev cameras, for so many years -- it even has the oblate triune >>> sphere >>> > logo on it.) I don't own it for intimdiation, I don't own it for >>> machismo, >>> > I don't own it for self-defense (though my wife came equipped with a.22 >>> > Ruger target pistol along with a whole aresenal, so our differences >>> tend to >>> > be VERY peacefully resolved <he grins> -- but, then, she is a Michigan >>> > farmer by origin and grew up around guns much more so than I did.) >>>I do >>> > take my rifle out every couple of years with a couple of boxes of >>> 280-grain >>> > ammunition (have to use the high-power rounds as there is the barrel >>> > is a >>> > tad larger than the regulation .30 - '06 one, tehcnically it's a 7.62mm >>> > round in an 8mm barrel, though the actual measurements are a bit >>> different.. >>> > >>> > There were no firearms in my house when I was growing up but my >>> father was >>> > retired from the Army and had commanded an anti-aircraft battery in >>> Alaska >>> > in combat during the Second World War. I learned to shoot when I was >>> > 12 >>> > and taught marksmanship when I was a Boy Scout camp staff member and >>> later >>> > as a Scoutmaster (along with teaching campcraft, pioneering, map work >>> > and >>> > orienteering, first aid, lifesaving and so forth). I consistently shot >>> > Marksman in the Army, generally on the M1 or M14 or M16 but on >>> occasion on >>> > the M1911A1 .45 automatic or on a substitute such as a .22 target >>> > pistol. >>> > The Army allowed me to fire a LOT of weapons from small-bore rifles and >>> > pistols up through 81mm and 4.2" mortars to 90mm and 105mm tank guns >>> > and >>> > even 105mm and 155mm and, on a few occasions, 8" howitzers. I never >>> had a >>> > desire to own a gun despite an intense interest in military history: >>> > during most of my time, I was much more concerned with the maintenance >>> > cycles and MTBF for, say, the M1 tank or the CUCV than I was on >>> popping off >>> > rounds downrange. >>> > >>> > I own a gun just because I own a gun. Very few of my friends know >>> > that I >>> > own a gun and that my wife has an arsenal that would choke the >>> average pawn >>> > shop. We do not belong to the NRA or the like, we do not have >>> > bumper-stickers on our cars (well, at election time, I generally sport >>> > something along the lines of OCTAVIA JOHNSON FOR SHERIFF or the like), >>> > we >>> > do not go to demonstrations. I know a bunch of other gun owners who >>> > are >>> > much of a sort with my pattern, and I suspect that most US gun owners >>> just >>> > own guns and so be it. It is not the central part of our lives, it >>> is just >>> > something we do and, yes, my wife came equipped with a riding mower >>> > which >>> > seems a bit of an overkill on my small yard and I tend to do my >>> cooking on >>> > cast iron. The only Cuisinart I use is our coffee maker, though I >>> > prefer >>> > to grind the beans in a Krups grinder proving that even a mild >>> techno-geek >>> > can go low-tech on occasion. (I do have my late mother's Cuisinart >>> > processer but my wife simply refuses to use it, preferring the old >>> ways of >>> > doing it by hand. We are having strip steaks and blanched asparagus >>> and a >>> > bottle of Chilean red wine in a few minutes: we do eat simply but >>> > well!) >>> > >>> > USian citizens have rights derived from the common sovereignity and >>> > expressed in our Constitution. The Bible does not provide any >>> "rights" to >>> > Chirstians as Paul makes clear that anyone saved -- and he does not >>> > restrict this to "Christians", interestingly -- is saved but through >>> > the >>> > infinite Grace of God. We Christians do have a lot of obligations, >>> most of >>> > which we miss -- how many of us have ever gone down to Skid Row on >>> > Thanksgiving Morning and brought it a couple of hungover street folks >>> for a >>> > meal in the haven of our home? -- but at the same time we have no >>> > guarantees with Christ other than that if we throw ourselves >>> wholeheartedly >>> > into his service, we shall earn His happiness. But, again, there are >>> only >>> > the haziest of guarantees in the Bible and I get fidgety when folks >>> > start >>> > talking about a "God-given right" to bear firearms. The right came >>> > from >>> > the forefathers when they developed our common polity by drafting the >>> > Constitution, and is only as strong as we make it. (I can discuss >>> > Second >>> > Amendment rights all day long but, as I note below, that is not a >>> > proper >>> > topic for discussion on the LUG., so contact me off-List, as I am not a >>> > member of the Forum.) >>> > >>> > We can argue the radical fringes all we want but that probably belongs >>> > on >>> > the Forum and not on the LUG itself as we would soon be discussing ALL >>> > of >>> > the radical fringe elements and then we'd be into the sort of general >>> > donnybrook which makes my Riley blood elated but which causes my >>> > Hielan' >>> > ancestors to roll over in their graves at the wasting of a good fight >>> > on >>> > something which cannot be resolved. So, the Forum is probably the >>> > place >>> > for the discussion of the social aspects of firearm ownership, while a >>> > discussion of these fine pictures is, of course, at the heart of the >>> > LUG. >>> > >>> > Sorry to have rattled on so long, but I am responding in fine to a >>> bunch of >>> > comments from other members and just wanted you guys to realize that >>> there >>> > are gun owners on the LUG -- for that matter, our Senior Member, was >>> taught >>> > BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) by William Tell shortly before he did >>> > that >>> > magnificent book of combat photographs taken during the Wars of the >>> Roses, >>> > though I don't know that Ted has ever owned a firearm. >>> > >>> > Marc >>> > >>> > msmall@aya.yale.edu >>> > Cha robh b?s fir gun ghr?s fir! >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Leica Users Group. >>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Leica Users Group. >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >>// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please >>use richard at imagecraft.com) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Leica Users Group. >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > // richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please use richard at imagecraft.com)