Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/02/22

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Subject: C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts]
From: scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin)
Date: Wed Feb 22 19:01:23 2006
References: <9b678e0602211943r11cb62d5u12d232a1310f385f@mail.gmail.com> <p06230913c0222dfad530@10.0.1.2> <4cfa589b0602221107p3b80ffaq93eddd451f19a08e@mail.gmail.com> <9b678e0602221642h4b7f4bb3t96826b96d37033ab@mail.gmail.com> <43FD06E2.4030106@adrenaline.com> <9b678e0602221707v6461a720rfd8c0cf8f8b75edc@mail.gmail.com> <43FD118F.2050705@adrenaline.com> <9b678e0602221843s3a67c121s69f8324178f7f05d@mail.gmail.com>

BTW, tomorrow my dad is coming down to visit, and if I can
pry him away from figure skating on the tele, I'll drag him down
to the DADA exhibit at the national gallery.  I love to shoot
inside the museum, and typically have used HP5+ at ISO 800
in the past.

XP2 just isn't going to cut it here, as you point out - under exposure
gives a really gritty look (nice in itself, but not what I'm looking for
shooting the museum's loverly architecture).

I got to get on the phone to Chrome and B&W Labs here in town
and talk to them about processing pushed HP5+. I do it (or more
accurately at this point, "did it") in HC-110 (H) with very, very gentle
agitation and have been happy with the results, but I'm worried what
even a decent commercial lab might do to it. 

Maybe I'm too paranoid.  Soup and a contact sheet isn't too pricey,
and if I could become comfy with a commercial lab, I'd be able to
catch up on a 7.5 month backlog of undeveloped film.

Scott

Don Dory wrote:

>Scott,
>I don't think that C-41 will go away anytime soon, it just will not be as
>ubiquitous as it has been.  I believe that probably the best E-6 lab in town
>is doing as much C-41 work as E-6 work now so at least one outlet in Atlanta
>for the long term.
>
>Seth will be smiling at me, but for C-41 B&W films, the current Kodak
>offering is very much superior to XP-2.  XP-2 is just too tricky compared to
>the Kodak offering.  I think it is really a 200 ISO emulsion, it doesn't
>respond well to underexposure, grain can be an issue in thin parts of the
>negative, the base can scratch fairly easily, and other reasons not to
>appreciate this film.
>
>An alternative would be to shoot color negative film and have it converted
>to B&W.  Your local Ritz can do this very easily, if they have a Frontier
>they can also play with sharpness and contrast but will not want to.
>
>Don
>don.dory@gmail.com
>
>
>On 2/22/06, Scott McLoughlin <scott@adrenaline.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Interesting. This has recently become an "issue" that's important to
>>me.  Up to this past summer, I shot color in digital, and B&W in
>>traditional films that I would soup myself. Now, I just don't have the
>>energy (due to illness) to soup my B&W film - I have an embarrasing
>>pile of the stuff yet to be developed :-(
>>
>>So I've started shooting XP2 and having it developed for me, using
>>4x6 prints for proofing. I have a bunch of it in the freezer, and so far,
>>it seems to do the trick well enough. Ok not well enough, but I'll take
>>what I can get at this point :-)  I've spoken to the guy at the local Ritz
>>down the street about properly processing/printing XP2, and he seems
>>sensitive to the issue, and I don't get any weird blue or green prints
>>that
>>I've gotten in past years.
>>
>>I've also got some Fuji chrome film (Velvia 50 and Provia) and some
>>Fuji mailers, but I've had a *HELL* of a time scanning slides that
>>even *remotely* resemble what they look like through my Mamiya
>>loupe.  Maybe I need more practice here - don't know.
>>
>>But my health is starting to look up, and maybe I'll get back to good
>>old traditional film grain soon enough!
>>
>>Since I got sick, I've learned that a big advantage of living in a big
>>city is access to a wide variety of medical specialists. Now I can add
>>access to C-41 processing :-)
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>Don Dory wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Scott,
>>>Your question gets to the heart of my question.  In small towns I think
>>>      
>>>
>>that
>>    
>>
>>>the closing of minilabs will happen sooner than later.  You will still be
>>>able to get your digital capture printed, but C-41 films will have to be
>>>farmed out probably to Kodak.  In a more urban environment, I believe
>>>      
>>>
>>that
>>    
>>
>>>the current density of labs will thin out quite a bit.  Here in Atlanta
>>>where I live you probably could hit a C-41 machine every half mile on
>>>average; however, I don't see much film hanging.  Plenty of digital
>>>      
>>>
>>prints
>>    
>>
>>>but not a lot of film.
>>>
>>>I suspect that in the rural and very suburban enviromments, those labs
>>>      
>>>
>>that
>>    
>>
>>>have figured out new strategies to survive such as wedding, portrait,
>>>retouching, restoration, novelties, scrapbooking, studio, custom
>>>      
>>>
>>printing,
>>    
>>
>>>digital printing will look at the time and expense of keeping the C-41 up
>>>and running and at some point will decide to scrap the beast.
>>>
>>>I also suspect that the drug store lab will morph into your digital print
>>>center and will lose the C-41 machine as well.  For drug stores and even
>>>Wal-Mart the print business is a lure to get people in the store.  Once a
>>>customer graces the front door, they are almost guarenteed a $50 basket
>>>      
>>>
>>at
>>    
>>
>>>the check out counter.
>>>
>>>Don
>>>don.dory@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>On 2/22/06, Scott McLoughlin <scott@adrenaline.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Is this mostly an issue in small towns or suberbs?
>>>>
>>>>At least the various Ritz cameras around downtown DC I
>>>>sometimes use always have someone in the back working at the
>>>>machine and cranking out prints.  I don't know about the Penn
>>>>Cameras downtown because the "guts of the operation" are not
>>>>visible.  But Penn is still renting out MF film gear, selling film
>>>>including a reasonable selection of B&W films and 120 films,
>>>>and so forth.
>>>>
>>>>Is this some kind of "special case"?
>>>>
>>>>Scott
>>>>
>>>>Don Dory wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Adam,
>>>>>The hassle of keeping your typical mini-lab C-41 up to snuff is no
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>light
>>    
>>
>>>>>matter for the home enthusiast.  Volumes start at about 10 litres and
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>you
>>    
>>
>>>>>would have to run possibly 5 rolls a day to keep the chemistry fresh.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Then
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>there is the rack maintenance to keep dried chemistry from scratching
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>your
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>negatives.  For the home, the Jobo system makes much more sense..
>>>>>
>>>>>Don
>>>>>don.dory@gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 2/22/06, Adam Bridge <abridge@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>If these minilabs start being sold maybe there's an opportunity there
>>>>>>for a really wiz-bang home lab!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 2/22/06, Richard S. Taylor <r.s.taylor@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(snip)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, those of you who use C-41, how busy are your labs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Don - The short answer is not very busy at all, at least as far as
>>>>>>>C-41 processing is concerned.  I would guess that part of his
>>>>>>>business has dropped to about 25% of what it was at its peak.  To
>>>>>>>survive, he has had to change with the times.  He (actually, one man
>>>>>>>plus one gal on the counter) now offers a wide range of digital
>>>>>>>printing services, portraiture, sports and wedding photography, photo
>>>>>>>copying and restoration, and does a lot of commercial business as
>>>>>>>well as the retail he started with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He seems committed to keeping the C-41 service alive and long may he
>>>>>>>be successful.  His product is superior to either of the two local
>>>>>>>alternatives, a CVS and a video store.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I processed my own B&W film (35, 120, 616, 116) for years.  Now the
>>>>>>>convenience of C-41 really appeals, particularly since the shop does
>>>>>>>good work and deals with the hassle of scanning all the negatives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(snip)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Don
>>>>>>>>don.dory@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Pics @ http://www.adrenaline.com/snaps
>>>>Leica M6TTL, Bessa R, Nikon FM3a, Nikon D70, Rollei AFM35
>>>>(Jihad Sigint NSA FBI Patriot Act)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>--
>>Pics @ http://www.adrenaline.com/snaps
>>Leica M6TTL, Bessa R, Nikon FM3a, Nikon D70, Rollei AFM35
>>(Jihad Sigint NSA FBI Patriot Act)
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Leica Users Group.
>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>  
>

-- 
Pics @ http://www.adrenaline.com/snaps
Leica M6TTL, Bessa R, Nikon FM3a, Nikon D70, Rollei AFM35
(Jihad Sigint NSA FBI Patriot Act)



Replies: Reply from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])
Reply from pdzwig at summaventures.com (Peter Dzwig) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])
In reply to: Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) ([Leica] Random evil thoughts)
Message from abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])
Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])
Message from scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])
Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])
Message from scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])
Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) (C-41 Processing [was Re: [Leica] Random evil thoughts])