Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/01/15
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Funny you should mention that, Seth. As far as I'm concerned, one of the greatest benefits of LUG membership - aside from all the friendships, both long-distance and up-close-and-personal - that have arisen from it, is that it has made me examine my thinking - and articulate that thinking - on a whole host of photographic issues that I otherwise would have skated over and around. On 1/15/06 2:12 PM, "Seth Rosner" <sethrosner@nycap.rr.com> wrote: > B.D., you remind me of an old lawyer friend who used to say jocularly that > he never knows what he thinks about something until after he has offered > his > opinion! ;-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@comcast.net> > To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [Leica] re: digital treadmill > > >> Thanks, Seth. All that said, however, I'm sure I'll look back on it at >> some >> point and ask - 'what in God's name was I thinking!?' :-) >> >> >> On 1/15/06 9:53 AM, "Seth Rosner" <sethrosner@nycap.rr.com> wrote: >> >>> B.D., your response is going in my Leica info file for keeper email >>> posts. I >>> have not yet gone digital though I may if the Leica digital M that debuts >>> at >>> Photokina in September is as good as I hope and I can raise enough money >>> selling some stuff that I don't use! Big benefit permitting me the use of >>> my >>> M lenses and maintaining the Leica M manner of photography. >>> >>> That said, this post is the defining description of today's world for a >>> professional photographer and for a great many serious amateurs. >>> >>> Seth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@comcast.net> >>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:30 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] re: digital treadmill >>> >>> >>>> I'm going to stick my neck way out here, Steve (and slide a wicker >>>> hamper >>>> under it :-) - >>>> Yes, I think I am doing better work now than I did in the past. Part of >>>> that >>>> has to do with the fact that I am shooting much more than I was. I was >>>> not >>>> in a financial position to just bang away at my own work - as opposed to >>>> commissioned work. Film costs money. Processing costs money. (Yes, I >>>> know >>>> I >>>> could do my own processing, and I could buy bulk film - which I did). >>>> But >>>> I >>>> have found digital extremely freeing, both financially and artistically. >>>> >>>> I find that digital gives me an image by image, rather than roll by >>>> roll, >>>> choice of color v black and white. I was never particularly fond of >>>> color >>>> negative film, and wasn't thrilled with conversions to black and white. >>>> Digital, on the other hand, gives me better color, far, far more easily >>>> adjusted and balanced, and gives me black and whites that look like what >>>> I >>>> shot on black and white film. >>>> >>>> No, I'm not thrilled with the noise in shadows, but I'm getting used to >>>> it. >>>> I know that there are those who say 'why get used to it when you can >>>> use >>>> film?' And the answer is "because it is part of what is now main stream >>>> photography." If I was really bothered by it, I'd go with Canon and get >>>> smoother, cleaner results at iso 1600 than I got with the best 400 iso >>>> film. >>>> But I'm not all that thrilled with the overly clean Canon look - >>>> probably >>>> because I grew up on Tri-X. >>>> >>>> Now, am I as comfortable with my DSLR as I was with my M6s? No, I'm not. >>>> I >>>> love the feel of the Ms. I love the rangefinder framing. And there is >>>> absolutely no question that the latest Leica M glass had virtually no >>>> peers. >>>> That said, my DSLR is every bit as quiet as my M6, and I do like its >>>> ergonomics. The lenses? Some are up to Leica quality, some aren't. But >>>> all >>>> give me images that I can be proud of as frequently as my Ms did. >>>> >>>> So am I giving up something to get something? Yes, I suppose I am. I'm >>>> given >>>> up the feel of the Ms - and I am giving up those fast prime lenses; I've >>>> never been a zoom guy, and I've had to adapt to that. But life is about >>>> tradeoffs, so why wouldn't I expect photography to be? >>>> >>>> The bottom line, as always, is the results. And I'm willing to be that >>>> were >>>> I not now known as the ultimate Leica apostate ;-), I could be posting >>>> the >>>> black and white images I've been posting, telling everyone I shot them >>>> with >>>> my M6, and no one would question me. >>>> >>>> Finally, none of this means that someone else shouldn't be shooting >>>> film. >>>> If >>>> it does what you want it to do, and if money isn't an object - and if >>>> you >>>> don't have to turn results around quickly - why not keep shooting film >>>> until >>>> there's no film to shoot? >>>> >>>> B. D. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/14/06 6:19 PM, "Steve Barbour" <kididdoc@cox.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Jan 14, 2006, at 3:52 PM, B. D. Colen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I spent about 40-45 years shooting film. But from the point at which I >>>>>> realized that not only does digital give me more convenience than >>>>>> film, but >>>>>> it also expands my photographic 'reach,' I haven't thought about >>>>>> going back >>>>>> to film. Sure, once and a while I'll shoot a roll. But each time I >>>>>> do, I end >>>>>> up asking myself, 'now why did I do this? What has it given me that >>>>>> digital >>>>>> can't? >>>>> >>>>> Hi BD, I believe that most of us wound up here ie. on the LUG 'cus >>>>> of Leica lenses , cameras, and film...and we insisted that was God's >>>>> way, and was better than the alternatives. >>>>> Are you saying that you now get better photos with digital than you >>>>> can get with Leica lenses, cameras, and film ? Are there compromises? >>>>> Are you giving up something to get something else ? >>>>> >>>>> This is my dilemma, perhaps yours, and a lot of other photographers >>>>> here... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And why can't I do as much with film as I can with digital?' Sure, >>>>>> long-term storage of images requires paying attention to technology >>>>>> changes >>>>>> and making sure that one doesn't get two generations behind when >>>>>> technology >>>>>> changes. And, no, I'm not great at cataloguing my images - but then >>>>>> I wasn't >>>>>> very good at cataloguing my negs either as I am definitely an ADD >>>>>> and I am >>>>>> lousy with detailed, boring work. But that's no different with >>>>>> digital. >>>>>> >>>>>> But if anyone else sees digital as a microwave, and gets better >>>>>> results with >>>>>> film - keep your microwave. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/14/06 3:05 PM, "David Rodgers" <drodgers@casefarms.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> A year ago I was convinced I'd never shoot film again. Right now >>>>>>> all I'm >>>>>>> shooting is film. So much for absolutes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my kitchen I have a microwave and a gas range. My high-tech >>>>>>> microwave >>>>>>> is like a DSLR. I use it a lot because I'm so busy with other things. >>>>>>> But it's not my favorite way to cook. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DaveR >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Douglas Nygren [mailto:dnygr@cshore.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:30 AM >>>>>>> To: lug@leica-users.org >>>>>>> Subject: [Leica] re: digital treadmill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nathan and Tina, Your points are well taken. I'm not 100% for or >>>>>>> against. I react more to those who wax over digital than to those who >>>>>>> defend film. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tina mentions sending images over the internet. I like doing that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nathan and others note that people have kept the photos from the >>>>>>> past, >>>>>>> but not the negatives. Others note they have the photos and negatives >>>>>>> from the past. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Someone else noted enjoying getting the instant feedback on the photo >>>>>>> taken. That's true, but there is also a lot of enjoyment when you >>>>>>> develop your film and see how it all came out. The key word is >>>>>>> enjoyment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then again, since I use fast film at slow speeds, I don't enjoy >>>>>>> taking >>>>>>> the film through airports and x-ray machines. Maybe I'll take my >>>>>>> digital camera with me the next time I go to Europe, but then I do a >>>>>>> lot of panoramic work and where do I find a digital, panoramic >>>>>>> camera? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information