Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/08/02
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]BD, Dont talk through your hat on things you have no, repeat no knowledge of. I will stake anything on the fact that I know far,far more about your culture and country than you know about mine. So I suggest that I am in a far better position to make these judgement calls than you are.....(BTW " Liberal European views was supposed to be strictly satirical...) Cheers Jayanand ----- Original Message ----- From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@comcast.net> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [Leica] Piercings and Tatoos > With all due respect, Jayanand, it's not a question of "liberal European > thinking;" it's a question of whether one views women and men as equals, > or > whether one views women as chattel, honored chattel in some societies, but > chattel none the less. > > B. D. > > > On 8/2/05 9:21 AM, "Jayanand Govindaraj" <jgovindaraj@eth.net> wrote: > >> You equate an arranged marriage with female circumcision? Wow! Liberal >> European thinking!! >> Cheers >> Jayanand Govindaraj >> Chennai, India >> (who has been happily married for 27 years through an arranged marriage, >> and >> has had no problem with it) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nathan Wajsman" <nathan.wajsman@planet.nl> >> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:30 AM >> Subject: Re: [Leica] Piercings and Tatoos >> >> >>> Well, I feel like I understand quite a few different cultures because of >>> my rather nomadic life, the international family I am part of, my Puerto >>> Rican wife etc. I agree with Dennis' sentiment that we should respect >>> the >>> fact that things are done differently in other cultures/religions, but I >>> do not agree that this implies that they are all equally valid, >>> particularly in modern, liberal societies like the US or Europe. An >>> arranged marriage, for me, is beyond the pale in the 21st century, as >>> is, >>> for example, female circumcision--which after all, also is grounded in a >>> strong cultural tradition. In Denmark there have been cases of parents >>> sending their daughters to Somalia to undergo this type of mutilation, >>> and >>> of parents sending their daughters to rural Turkey or Pakistan for an >>> arranged marriage against their will. Both types of activities are >>> illegal, and rightly so. >>> >>> As someone who has lived most of his life as an immigrant in four >>> different countries, I say that if someone wants to live like that, then >>> they should do so in South Asia or wherever this type of tradition is >>> considered normal. My guiding motto on this type of issue is the >>> wonderful >>> American expression, "shit or get off the pot." >>> >>> Strong family ties are all well and good, but not if they manifest >>> themselves in coercion or in practices that are unacceptable to the >>> wider >>> society. Some decades ago the Mormons had to accept that polygamy was >>> not >>> acceptable in the United States and they abandoned this tradition (yes, >>> I >>> am aware of the splinter groups that still cling to it, but mainstream >>> Mormons do not). As far as I can tell from the Mormon friends and >>> co-workers I had in the US, this has not had any negative impact on >>> their >>> family ties or ability to practice their religion. >>> >>> BTW, we know several South Asians (as evident from my latest PAWs), many >>> Muslims among them, who all live in thoroughly modern, voluntary >>> marriages, in many cases to "infidels." >>> >>> Nathan >>> >>> Dennis Painter wrote: >>> >>>> This is a very interesting set of photos. One certainly needs to know a >>>> bit of what's going on here to understand them. I am glad that Tina is >>>> working on this project as I doubt anyone could do better than her. >>>> Despite that I am not sure photographs will lead to greater >>>> understanding. >>>> >>>> Much has been said of and about different cultures and cultural >>>> differences. Here are my beliefs. >>>> >>>> It's almost impossible to truly understand another culture. Perhaps if >>>> you know all the history, can read the language, and live within that >>>> culture for years, then, you might really understand. >>>> >>>> If you apply your standards, your culture, against another you are lost >>>> to understanding. >>>> >>>> The best way of "understanding" is to accept that what they believe and >>>> do is correct to their way of life and culture. Respect their culture. >>>> This helps greatly to avoid forming prejudice in your mind. >>>> >>>> It's hard for me to put this into words. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Nathan Wajsman >>> Almere, The Netherlands >>> >>> General photography: http://www.nathanfoto.com >>> Seville photography: http://www.fotosevilla.com >>> Stock photography: http://www.alamy.com/search-results.asp?qt=wajsman >>> http://myloupe.com/home/found_photographer.php?photographer=507 >>> Prints for sale: http://www.photodeluge.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >