Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/04/29
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]And I "concede," Bob, that I like the look of good fiber prints. What I admit I don't get about the exchanges here - present company very much excepted - is that people seem to feel that accepting the present reality means rejecting the value of the past, and that is not the case. Yes, I've been an advocate for quadtone digital printing, and now for the one type of printer - that I've seen - that can produce prints equal to those produced the "old fashioned way." That's not saying that wet prints produced by a master printer aren't gorgeous - only that it's now possible to produce equally gorgeous prints without having, or spending time in a darkroom. There is, by the way, one undeniable advantage to digital printing - whether the dry or wet (light jet) variety, and that is the fact that once you've got the image to print the way you want it, you can reprint it any time with the push of a button. Call that automation, call it anything you like, but I call it a gift from the gods of progress. :-) -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Robert Meier Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 11:07 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] digital transformation BD, I have made some B&W 7960 prints on HP's premium glossy paper, and I agree that they are very good. And, yes, sometimes they could be seen as being as good as a good RC print. I concede that. Bob > Sorry to disagree, Robert - But they are interchangeable with wet RC > prints with similar finish. Fiber, of course not. But RC? Try showing > someone who is not a darkroom junkie two prints side by side and they > will have no idea which is which. My guess is either would you if you > didn't have the paper in your hand. ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org > [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf > Of Robert Meier > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 11:15 AM > To: Leica Users Group > Subject: Re: [Leica] digital transformation > > > > Richard, > > Yes, I've read his praise for the 7960. I've used that too, and while > I > agree that it makes prints that look good, they are not easily > mistaken for > wet prints. I was only looking at RC prints. When I compare > fiberbase > prints, the tilt goes even more vertiginously towards the wet prints. > > Bob > > >> Bob, you realized that B.D. has done a test with B&W wet print vs. > HP7960 >> B&W print and he claims the results are different but comparable > right? >> >> While I don't do wet prints, my 7960 B&W do look quite gorgeous.... >> >> At 09:38 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: >> >> >>>John, >>> >>>I think you have identified exactly what is most important. I have > just >>>been going through a stack of B&W 8x10's of mine from the last three >>>years, or so. These are just first prints, or file or work prints, > but >>>their quality is just overwhelming -- the detail and the tonal range > are >>>outstanding, and I've never gotten a B&W digital print that is > anywhere >>>near as good. Not from my D70 or from a scanned Leica negative, not > even >>>on my Epson C86 printer with the MIS carbon black and gray inks. The > >>>quality of output of film cameras is just in another orbit from > digital. >>>Your second criterion is even more tilted in favor of film, if that >>>is > >>>possible. No digital camera has the qualities in the hand and up to > the >>>eye that a Leica has, or even a Hexar RF, or a Nikon FM2. This is > very, >>>very important for getting a good picture in the first place. So the > two >>>things go hand in hand and the result is, IMHO, much better pictures. >>> >>>Bob >>> >>>>For me two things matter: the quality of the output and the user >>>>interface. I use M cameras because they suit the way I see period. I > am >>>>only loyal to Leica in that they are the only ones providing what I > need. >>>>99% of my output is projected slide and projected digital is just >>>>not > >>>>there yet quality wise. It will get there eventually and, if Leica > comes >>>>out with a M digital, I will seriously weigh the options. For one > thing >>>>present digital projectors, even with their relatively poor quality >>>>output, are extremely expensive to buy and maintain. Sure film and >>>>processing are expensive but have you priced out replacement bulbs > for >>>>digital projectors?!! >>>> >>>>John Collier >>>> >>>>On 27-Apr-05, at 8:35 PM, Don Dory wrote: >>>> >>>>>In the almost five years I have been participating on the LUG, >>>>>there > has >>>>>been a rather dramatic shift in conversation. When I first started >>>>>paying attention, this was definitely a gear head discussion, we > were >>>>>very interested in Marc's book on LTM lenses, long treatises on > small >>>>>differences in the 50's, scotch religious wars, Tilley hats and > more. >>>>> >>>>>In the last year the transformation to primarily digital has been >>>>>profound; actual Leica discussion has dropped to a very minor part. >>>>>Even film based discussion is a minority. >>>>> >>>>>I understand that for many, the tool does not matter. Nathan, >>>>>B.D., Ted, Tina, Sonny, and many others have made the transition to > digital an >>>>>easy move. Strangely enough, for me, the tool does matter: I get > along >>>>>fine with a variety of cameras and formats but an M or a SL becomes > an >>>>>extension of my eye more so than any other photographic tool. >>>>>While > I >>>>>respect the need of the professional to streamline workflow, speed > up >>>>>the billing process, or just plain know they have the shot in the > bag, I >>>>>find great joy in going over new negatives or slides; love the >>>>>serendipity when the combination of chemistry and accident create >>>>>wonderful images far more that looking at an LCD. >>>>> >>>>>So I guess what I am really wondering is, how many of us on the >>>>>list > are >>>>>somewhat nostalgic for film, or have genuinely embraced the digital >>>>>revolution? >>>>> >>>>>Don >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Leica Users Group. >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> // richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, > please >> use richard at imagecraft.com) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information