Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/09/29

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
From: bdcolen at earthlink.net (B. D. Colen)
Date: Wed Sep 29 15:32:00 2004

I'm not going to get into one of the lpm debates with you, Simon - you
and I view these issues, and photography, from very different
perspectives.

And, yes, why not use a Cosina 15? Well, it's an f 4.5 and this will be
a 2.8; it's seat-of-the-pants focused and this will be rangefinder
coupled; and my guess is this will have a better build - all valid
reasons even if image quality were no better. But I'm certainly not
against good image quality.

B. D.

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
animal
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:22 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon


Well if performance is no factor then why not stay with the existing
cosina lenses like their 15mm,or put a sublime old 15 mm on a R?

simon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:10 AM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon


> But that's the point, Simon - I'm not talking about "performance" of 
> anything; I'm talking about availability of, and price of, product. 
> And if Leica thinks the path to survival lays through winning a bunch 
> of Erwin Puts bench tests by .xxx%, they're dead on arrival. Fractions

> of percentages aren't going to matter - actually having a product 
> will. If Leica can now turn on a dime and put out a real digital M six

> months from now - BEFORE Zeiss comes out with one - and price it so 
> that it appeals to more than a handful of people for whom money is no 
> object, then they have a chance. If not...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf 
> Of animal
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 5:54 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
>
>
> As you mentioned earlier i think ,nothing  is known about the real 
> performance of the new system. Isn,t it a bit premature to anounce a 
> winner before a match? best regards simon jessurun amsterdam
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
> To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
>
>
> > IF that's Leica's response to an entire line of new Zeiss t-star 
> > lenses, a film rangefinder body, and what will undoubtedly be a 
> > digital body, then we most assuredly have the answer to the 
> > question. Because if Leica survives as the Hermes of cameraland, it 
> > might as well not survive.
> >
> > And there's another point to think about here, folks - Leica is 
> > still around today for only one reason:
> >
> > In the early 1960s, Zeiss/Contax and Nikon abandoned the 
> > pro-rangefinder playing field. Nikon, which made what was definitely

> > the best body at that time - the SP - decided to put all its eggs in

> > the SLR basket, a decision which was a loss for those of us who love

> > rangefinders, but was obviously a winner for Nikon. And Contax must 
> > have decided that there wasn't going to be enough rangefinder 
> > business
>
> > to keep them going.
> >
> > So that left the barren playing field to Leica, which, other than 
> > improving it's lens line, hasn't done anything truly innovative 
> > since bringing out and abandoning the M5. And, when you think about 
> > it, really hasn't done anything innovative since the "O."
> >
> > But because there have been enough photographers committed to using 
> > rangefinders, and enough dilitants committed to owning Leicas - and 
> > a scarf company willing to buy up a grand old brand name - Leica's 
> > limped along to the present day.
> >
> > Now, however, we are on the downward slope of the technology range 
> > taking us into the next age of photography. Any company that wants 
> > to survive in the new age is going to have to be a real part of that

> > age.
>
> > And up to this point, Leica has, as usual, limped along at the back 
> > end of the parade.
> >
> > So this time Zeiss - well the Zeiss/Kyocera/Hassleblad/Contax 
> > coalition
> > - has decided to stick around and pickup  the pieces. Unless Leica 
> > is prepared to move, and move very quickly - perhaps by talking 
> > Nikon, Canon, or Olympus into a rangefinder partnership, Leica's 
> > days are, sadly, very much numbered. I say "sadly" with total 
> > sincerity, because
> I
> > am enough of a traditionalist to be touched by the Leica heritage -
> I'd
> > rather be shooting in a new age with a grandchild of HCB's M3s, than

> > shooting with a Kocerstein's monster patched together with parts 
> > from
> a
> > washing machine, a high-milage care, and a disposable camera. :-)
> >
> > B. D.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
> > [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf

> > Of Dan C
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 4:33 PM
> > To: Leica Users Group
> > Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
> >
> >
> > Leica has responded in part by offering the a la carte Leica.  But 
> > have you
> > seen the prices?    Do I really want to spend upwards of $4,000 USD
> for
> > the
> > privilege of picking the colour of my camera?  Are there enough 
> > people
>
> > out there willing to do so to keep Leica afloat?
> >
> > -dan c.
> >
> > At 04:26 PM 29-09-04 -0400, B. D. Colen wrote:
> > >Emanuel says..
> > >"The old era of Zeiss - Leitz rivalry was a heady time
> > >for 35mm design," and asks...
> > >
> > >"Now, in these days, how will Leica respond?"
> > >
> > >---
> > >As they, sadly, always have ... With too little, too late, and at 
> > >too
>
> > >high a price.
> > >
> > >These are not the heady days of the Zeiss/Leitz competition - 
> > >which, if
> >
> > >we recall, were actually the days of the Zeiss/Leitz/Nikon 
> > >competition.
> > >;-)
> > >
> > >These are the days of the Zeiss/Kyocera/Cosina/Hassie consortium 
> > >moving
> >
> > >in to clean up the remaining scraps from the rangefinder table - 
> > >scraps
> >
> > >that could have been Leicas had Leica moved 18 months ago, or even 
> > >further back, when the Cosina handwriting was writ large upon the 
> > >wall.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

_______________________________________________
Leica Users Group.
See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


Replies: Reply from s.jessurun95 at chello.nl (animal) ([Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon)
In reply to: Message from s.jessurun95 at chello.nl (animal) ([Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon)