Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/08/23

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Subject: [Leica] Leni Riefenstahl
From: ruben at rhodos.dk (Ruben)
Date: Mon Aug 23 23:37:42 2004
References: <3.0.2.32.20040822191033.01e660cc@pop.infionline.net><3.0.2.32.20040822201406.01e7cbf4@pop.infionline.net><41297062.2080105@planet.nl> <007001c4890a$8d7d1680$3201a8c0@AUG01><412A2969.8000903@planet.nl> <00a001c48956$4c5777d0$3201a8c0@AUG01> <412ABEED.2010308@planet.nl>

Thanks Nathan for making the geographics and history in my post more clear
to the rest of the list - and to the rest of the list sorry for not provide
those details in the fast hand ?-) ruben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Wajsman" <nathan.wajsman@planet.nl>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Leni Riefenstahl


> Hi Ruben,
>
> Single malt...Humleb?k...you're on! No need to remove anything from your
> book shelf either.
>
> For the rest of the list: Ruben's town, Humleb?k, is about 25 km north
> of Copenhagen, on the coast. It is as close to paradise on earth as any
> place I have ever been. The road to get there from Copenhagen hugs the
> Danish coast with magnificent views of the Sound and the Swedish coast
> to your right; it has been classified as one of Europe's 10 prettiest
> drives. In Humleb?k itself, besides Ruben, you will find Lousiana, a
> privately funded modern art museum of extremely high caliber, founded in
> the 1950s by Knud W. Jensen. Every time I am in Copenhagen, I check what
> exhibits are one there; Lousiana is a place where I have seen
> Mapplethorpe, Helmut Newton, and other photography blockbuster exhibits,
> in addition to paintings and sculptures. If you ever find yourself in
> Copenhagen, you owe it to yourself to visit Humleb?k (also easily
> accessible by train).
>
> Nathan
>
> Ruben wrote:
>
> > Hi Nathan
> >
> > I am glad non of us hate Germans - half my family on my mothers side is
from
> > Germany and my great great grandfather on my fathers side left N?rnberg
in
> > 1747 with nothing but his name and came to stay in Danmark. Kaj Munk was
> > stating an example and of cause not comparable with Riefenstahl but it
is
> > worth a thought that so many prominent, cultural intelektuals was
fascinated
> > by the nazis - just take Ole Wiviel the Director of the Largest
Publsihing
> > house in Denmark for many years and Knud W Jensen the founder of
Louisiana
> > museum of modern art in Danmark - both were very fascinated by the nazi
> > ideologies and none of them ever appologied - and none of them were ever
> > confronted with it while they lived! Anyway I respect you dislike for
> > Riefenstahl and should you ever pass Humleb?k and stop by the
publihinghouse
> > for a single malt I will be sure not to flash my Riefenstahl books, but
> > gladly lend you a copy of my grandfathers anti nazi manifest
"Forbrydelse og
> > Dumhed" :-) - ruben
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Nathan Wajsman" <nathan.wajsman@planet.nl>
> > To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
> > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Leni Riefenstahl
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hi Ruben,
> >>
> >>I don't know if she supported the Holocaust, but I certainly would not
> >>compare her to Kaj Munk (for the uninitiated, he was a Danish priest and
> >>poet who was executed by the Germans in 1944). While he did have some
> >>sympathy and admiration for Hitler in the first half of the 1930s, as
> >>did many intellectuals in Britain and the USA, at least from 1938
> >>onwards he was strongly anti-Nazi and once the German occupied Denmark
> >>he spoke out against them very forcefully--that is why he was shot,
> >>after all. Hamsun is a more difficult case, since his pro-Nazi
> >>activities were extensive and continued all the way through the end of
> >>the war and indeed afterwards. But at least with Hamsun I can read his
> >>main works, like Hunger, and enjoy them as great literature that has
> >>nothing to do with the Nazis. With Riefenstahl, her most important work
> >>was directly in service of Hitler, such as her 1936 Olympics film. So I
> >>think there is a difference. I will read Hamsun but I will not look at
> >>Riefenstahl's films or pictures.
> >>
> >>BTW--I do not hate the Germans. My father, who lived through the
> >>Holocaust and fought the Wehrmacht for 2 years, does not either. In
> >>fact, he was married to a German woman before he married my mother, and
> >>some of his closest friends are German. I have German friends, I speak
> >>German, I enjoy going there etc. But for me Riefenstahl is off limits.
> >>
> >>Nathan
> >>
> >>
> >>Ruben wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi Nathan
> >>>I dont think Riefenstahl was a supporter of the holocaust, nor was Knut
> >>>Hamsun - Norway,  nor Kaj Munk, Denmark and many, many other artists of
> >>>writing, fine art and photography. A lot of people have been seduced by
> >>>strong ideologys and I do think that Riefenstahl was as good as any
good
> >>>artist that portais something that the artist really believes in. I
have
> >>>several books on her pictures and in a way I respect her for standing
by
> >
> > her
> >
> >>>actions. She was a true believer in what she worked with but I don
think
> >
> > she
> >
> >>>was a Nazi after the war - she just stod by what she did during that
> >
> > time.
> >
> >>>My family was engaged in the resistance and my grandfather was forced
> >
> > from
> >
> >>>his job as an editor on the newspaper Berlingske Tidende by the Nazis
> >>>because he, since the early 30ties, had critisized what was going on in
> >>>Germany, so I am in no way into revising history or anything like it -
I
> >>>just think there are far worse crooks then Riefenstahl! but few, in her
> >>>time, as brilliant at staging her imagery.
> >>>On the other hand I do respect your oppinion on Riefenstahl as do I
> >
> > respect
> >
> >>>any persons choice not to forgive what went on during world war two as
> >
> > well
> >
> >>>as what went on in Russia.
> >>>ruben
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>From: "Nathan Wajsman" <nathan.wajsman@planet.nl>
> >>>To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
> >>>Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:19 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: [Leica] Leni Riefenstahl
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Marc James Small wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Are we to judge them as propagandists for the ideologies of the
states
> >>>
> >>>in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>which they live or are we to judge them as technicians producing some
> >
> > of
> >
> >>>>>the finest cinematography ever made?  We know little of Eisenstein's
> >>>>>feelings but we do have a really good feel on Reifenstahl.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>To just look at the technical prowess of someone like Riefenstahl
> >>>>without reference to her enthusiastic support for the Nazis is
sterile.
> >>>>She was not just someone who played along with the regime in order to
> >>>>survive; she was a committed supporter. As such I reject her work
> >>>>totally. I have no desire to have a book of her photographs on my
shelf,
> >>>>just as I have no need to have Mein Kampf there.
> >>>>
> >>>>Nathan
> >>>>-- 
> >>>>Nathan Wajsman
> >>>>Almere, The Netherlands
> >>>>
> >>>>General photography: http://www.nathanfoto.com
> >>>>Seville photography: http://www.fotosevilla.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Leica Users Group.
> >>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Leica Users Group.
> >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>Nathan Wajsman
> >>Almere, The Netherlands
> >>
> >>General photography: http://www.nathanfoto.com
> >>Seville photography: http://www.fotosevilla.com
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Leica Users Group.
> >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
> -- 
> Nathan Wajsman
> Almere, The Netherlands
>
> General photography: http://www.nathanfoto.com
> Seville photography: http://www.fotosevilla.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from msmall at infionline.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] Shakleton Photos Faked)
Message from msmall at infionline.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] Leni Riefenstahl)
Message from nathan.wajsman at planet.nl (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Leni Riefenstahl)
Message from ruben at rhodos.dk (Ruben) ([Leica] Leni Riefenstahl)
Message from nathan.wajsman at planet.nl (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Leni Riefenstahl)
Message from ruben at rhodos.dk (Ruben) ([Leica] Leni Riefenstahl)
Message from nathan.wajsman at planet.nl (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Leni Riefenstahl)