Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/07/13

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Subject: [Leica] Re: Digital M
From: ljkapner at cox.net (Leonard J Kapner)
Date: Tue Jul 13 14:58:59 2004

But Kimi did MORE OK... his drive was awesome!

Will he ever beat the Ferrari juggernaut?

Will Kimi take a picture of Schumi with his M7 as he passes him?

Len

-- 

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Tim
Atherton
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:29 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Digital M

BD

> and a Formula 1
> (World Championship) car about $25,000,000.

That's what Frank does for a "living".... :-)

Not 100% sure - I think this is Frank in all his glory (?):

http://bmw.williamsf1.com/ms/images/de/4_serien/41_f1/414_highlights/4141_bi
ldergalerie/16_frankreich/16_frankreich_07.jpg

http://bmw.williamsf1.com/ms/images/de/4_serien/41_f1/414_highlights/4141_bi
ldergalerie/14_usa/14_usa_08.jpg


Frank - hey Montoya did okay last week




> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+tim=kairosphoto.com@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+tim=kairosphoto.com@leica-users.org]On Behalf Of
> Frank Dernie
> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:44 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Digital M
>
>
> BD,
> I am an engineer with a reasonable knowledge of manufacturing processes
> and costs. The main reason for the high cost of Leica items is that
> their market is so small. Canon can recover the design and tooling
> costs of a lens over probably hundreds more units than Leica can.
> To put this in perspective a good quality road car production cost is
> about $4000, a Champ car (Indy car) about $400,000 and a Formula 1
> (World Championship) car about $25,000,000. There is a considerable
> technological difference but the main reasons for these vast difference
> in costs are the quantity of units over which engineering and tooling
> costs are amortised.
> Leica lenses are sold in too few numbers to be inexpensive without
> bankrupting the company. And you have to pay a premium for the brand,
> like cars :-)
> Frank
>
>
> On 13 Jul, 2004, at 19:39, B. D. Colen wrote:
>
> > There is no question that the M and Rs are extremely well built - the
> > Ms
> > are probably the best built modern cameras. And the lenses have no
> > peers
> > in terms of build quality. However...Is the build quality of an MP five
> > times better than that of a Bessa R2? I don't think so. Much better?
> > Absolutely! Twice as good? Not a doubt. Three times as good? Probably?
> > But five times better? I seriously doubt it - and yet the MP is five
> > times the price. Is the build quality of the old Summilux 50 almost
> > five
> > times better than that of the Cosina Nokton 50 1.5? No chance in hell.
> > Twice as good? Even that's a stretch, but I'll grant that. Image
> > quality? It's pretty much a dead heat. Yet the Summilux cost almost
> > five
> > times as much. Why? The red dot.
> >
> > Is the DigiII 33 % better built, or does it produce 33% better images
> > than the Panasonic version of the same camera? How could it possibly -
> > it's the same damn camera but black and without a red dot.
> >
> > Leica equipment is stellar - but please don't tell me you're not paying
> > a huge premium for the name and red dot. :-)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
> > [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> > Peterson Arthur G NSSC
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:13 PM
> > To: 'Leica Users Group'
> > Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Digital M
> >
> >
> >
> > I do not think the prices of Leica cameras and lenses are not
> > "reasonable." They are built like no others, and the prices are
> > "reasonable" for what you get.  You can buy many Toyotas, or even
> > several very fine Mercedes Benzes, for the price of a single
> > Rolls-Royce.
> >
> > Art Peterson
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Felix Lopez de Maturana [mailto:fmaturana@euskalnet.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:51
> > To: lug@leica-users.org
> > Subject: [Leica] Re: Digital M
> >
> >
> >> I don't know that I call fine-tuning lenses innovative, David. Yes,
> >> they produce stunning lenses; absolutely no question about it. But the
> >> reality is that Canon also produces some stunning lenses, and even
> >> Nikon produces a few. ;-) There's nothing really "innovative" about
> >> it.
> >
> >> Now, if they found a way to produce stunning lenses at far lower cost,
> >> that would be innovative. ;-)
> >
> > May be the problem of Leica is that, probably due to the size and
> > management of the company, Leica cannot achieve the production of
> > stunning lenses not at a lower cost,  this may be mathematically
> > impossible, but at a reasonable price. A "standard" lens like the new
> > 50mm ASPH is merely out of reason at the price is offered. I can buy
> > two
> > excellent Canon L lenses for this price. Probably a problem of efficacy
> > of the company that will disappear if this situation remains.
> >
> > Felix
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

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Replies: Reply from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Re: Digital M)
In reply to: Message from timatherton at theedge.ca (Tim Atherton) ([Leica] Re: Digital M)