[Leica] B&W Films/Developers

[saganicc at MSKCC.ORG (Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics)]

Nice rant Mark, you shouldn't have gone through all that trouble.  I don't 
mind being lost in the woods, and judging from your rant you don't either.

Chris Saganich

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org 
[mailto:lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Mark 
Rabiner
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:29 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] B&W Films/Developers



> Nicer detail in the shadows a bit more tonal expansion.  I always test for 
> EI
> when I use a new film/developer combination.  Actually my personal EI was 
> 180
> with TRIX and HC-110 Dilution H.
> 
> Chris Saganich
> 
Shooting tri x at 200 or otherwise... Pet peeve # 72b.
Igor this rant folks - you've read it many times from me before....

Typically the more you dilute the faster your film speed is going to be as
you have a more compensating effect going on. Until you dilute to that
extreme amount that is to where you just don?t have enough developing agent
in there to do the job.
So in the not unheard of dilution H you'd not have gone down from 200 to 180
but 200 to 300 perhaps.
I guess that was the thread that broke this particular Camels back on this
straw.

It sure sounded like it was decided on 200iso before testing for a
developing time even began.

There is nothing noble in reason about such lowering of an otherwise
respectable ISO/ASA. It does not connote to hard work, perseverance or...
well.. it does not connote to good technique. It's just blank over exposing
which for 35mm technique especially is bad technique or NO technique.
Doghouse!!! Doghouse!!!!

Tri x is known to give full speed with Hc 100 in normal dilutions...when
used as directed in a conscientiously applied program of oral hygiene and
regular professional care.?
Council on Scientific Affairs ~ American Dektol Association.

...with the exception of very few and rare developers / developer dilutions.
Exposing it at 200 is not normally the smart or otherwise thing to do and I
hate to see it done unless fully substantiated with a quite unusual
developer. Pyro for instance makes for the loss of a stop across the board I
believe to be well known.

HC100 is far from unusual. I'm sure Kodak has sold more of this gook than
anything else. 
And is not known for a lower film speed but quite slightly the opposite.

A quick search on Photo net just revealed people using dilution H with tri x
at full film speed (400)and with posted examples which looked very credible.
.. As in there were NO weakness in the shadow detail.
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008LWo

Although such "printing" from a scan or Silver-Jello print to a jpeg for our
monitors could tell you anything about anything.

Much of the mindset "my favorite ISO for such and such..." comes from that
great Mega developing chart in the sky ... Or internet... I forgot the exact
name or url which shows a huge range of ISO's to choose from from any film
developer dilution combination.
 This makes one believe this is the mega - palate one has to choose from
when one typically works in black and white. A huge Pantone monochrome
system of films and chemicals. Send for a swatch book for only $99.99.
It ain't.
99.99 % of the time its just the dumb number on the box. And to deviate from
that is to just shoot yourself in the foot.

Get your time down first and then when that is all that taken care of and
you are getting reasonable prints go out and fully bracket a whole roll in
half or third stops to first make sure that you can not also get good prints
as in good shadow detail from a thinner neg.. A higher ASA. Especially in a
tab grain neg when they may look to thin to have printable detail in the
shadows but reveled good printable detail out of seem ably thin air. And
have a higher ASA accordingly.

And also it could turn out the other way around that with a denser neg you
really are getting better shadow detail then you were getting before and
perhaps the shadow detail you were getting before really WAS weak and
unacceptable. 
And in THAT case go ahead and lower your film speed.
MUCH less common then the other way around in my experience.

Typically you are just checking out how the negs print which have gotten a
half stop more or less exposure to make sure that they don?t typically make
for better results on more than one shots - situations on a roll.
This would change your 400 speed to 300 or 600 had it been the case.

When it DOES turn out your film speed really seems to be needed to be
tweaked a reciprocal tweak in your developing time to match that of course
would be normally be obvious. And the buck ends there.

Not that shooting Tri-x 400 speed film at 180 is a "tweak".
It's more to the tune of "over exposing the bloody hell out of it" OETBHOUT
to again overstate a point
...if you ask me.



Mark Rabiner
Photography
Portland Oregon
http://rabinergroup.com/




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