Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/06/26
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]First, Mitch, why should I "get over" my personal taste and opinion? Is that now a requirement for Leica ownership or Lug membership? :-) Forgive me for not realizing that the snake photos were yours - as I noted, that was an "otherwise appealing" snake sequence; Third, I didn't comment on the Father's Day photos because I hadn't seen them. Now that I have, I'll note that I still find the bokeh displeasing, although it is not as bad with the lens stopped down as it is with the lens wide open; other than that the images are perfectly pleasant snap shots of family members; Fourth, and finally, you posted your images, and in doing so, are inviting comments on them - just as I invite comments when I post images. If you want nothing but "huzzas!" and "Brilliant image, gorgeously rendered by that fabulous Noctilux," you should say so when you post them. Otherwise, you should learn to recognize a comment about equipment for what it is - a comment about equipment, not about the photographer or his or her personality or ability. If you don't like the images I post, if you'd like to criticize them, do so. If you believe the equipment I'm using appears to be inferior, feel free to say so - I am not emotionally invested in my equipment - not in my Ms, my Nikons, or in my Olympus equipment. To conclude - rather than tell you to "get over it," I'll suggest that if you're going to post images for criticism, you learn that criticism need not be taken personally. Best B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Mitch Zeissler Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 9:34 AM To: 'Leica Users Group' Subject: RE: [Leica] Responding to BD's venting about the Noct +++++++++++++++++++++++ <BD> Look at these images, and Joe's otherwise appealing snake sequence... == <Mitch> Umm, the snake sequence is mine, BD. +++++++++++++++++++++++ <BD> ...I want to throw-up; the bokeh is really, really disturbing, a bit like looking through a bottle bottom on acid. I'm someone who normally doesn't 'see' bokeh, and doesn't consider it particularly importance. But this lens is the exception to that rule. == <Mitch> Then go puke and get it out of your system. I realize it's an acquired taste, but we already know from your continual postings on the subject that you hate Noct imagery when shot wide open. So get over it already. I used the Noct stopped down on these images (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1ssgc/Noct/FathersDay/index.htm), and you didn't have any negative comments to offer. +++++++++++++++++++++++ <BD> I can see using the Nocti when there's no other way to get the shot - which means capturing images in near darkness, when even 1.4 at 1/15th won't do the trick, or when you need a faster shutter speed, and the Noct. Will allow you to go up to 1/30th or 1/60th. But under those circumstances, most of the image will be in deep shadow anyway, so the bokeh isn't jarring. == <Mitch> If you examine my settings a little more closely, you'll see the light was pretty dim: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1ssgc/Noct/Snake/index.htm MP; Noct; Portra 160NC @ EV 100; F/1.0@1/30th I actually used a Canon PowerShot G3 for some other images of the snake that I haven't posted yet, but had to use a tripod to get the shots I wanted because the light was so dim. With the snake on the move, even the digicam was pretty much useless. +++++++++++++++++++++++ <BD> But I just don't get the idea of using this lens in relatively normal to normal light, when any number of other film and lens combinations will do the trick. In both these posted cases, Mitch and Joe were using relatively slow film. And Mitch had to shoot at 1/1000th to be able to shoot at f1. Yes, it's nice to isolate the subject, but another lens at f 1.4 or even f 2 would provide good isolation - without the smeary, swirly, blurs. == <Mitch> After hearing you drone on and on about it over the years, I don't expect you to *ever* get it. I have just three M lenses; the Noct, the goggled 135 and a pre-ASPH 21mm Elmarit. Only the Noct was useable without a tripod in the snake scenario, and I always use the widest aperture and fastest shutter speed to isolate the subject in all my other shots. Regards, Mitch _______________________________ E-mail: mitch.zeissler@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information