[Leica] Susan Sontag

[raikorho at uusikaupunki.fi (Raimo K)]

Exactly.
All the best!
Raimo K
Personal photography homepage at:
http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Susan Sontag


> I find this post utter laughable for several reasons -
> 1. Abu Ghraid is filled with - up to 90% by several independent
> estimates - innocent people who were swept up off the streets of Iraq,
> not with people who can tell torturers where bombs are hidden. And while
> there are undoubtedly some very bad actors in custody, most experts
> agree that torture only gets the torturer the story they want - not the
> truth;
> 2. Phil rants on infinitum with this pro-Administration, pro-torture
> bullshit, and then has the absolute temerity to end his rant by saying,
> "This is a site to discuss Leica cameras, lenses and accessories and the
> taking of Leica pictures. Please take all criticism of our military to
> sites set up for that purpose says that those who take a different view
> should take the discussion to a military website."
> 3. I thought the reason that we invaded the sovereign nation of Iraq,
> and that we become involved in other overseas adventures, is that we are
> setting an example for the world; we are the good guys. Well, good guys
> don't torture people. Are there times when, given the "ticking bomb"
> scenario, the limits will be pushed in secret in individual cases? Of
> course. We have always done that; virtually every nation has always done
> that. But special cases are a far, far cry from what has quite clearly
> been going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> So, Phil, this is a site for discussion of things Leica and Leica
> related - take your pro-torture rants to www.fascistbrotherhood.com -
> they'll be glad to see you. 
> 
> B.D.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> Philip Kokoczka
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:10 AM
> To: lug@leica-users.org
> Subject: [Leica] Susan Sontag
> 
> 
> What would you do?
> A group of criminals have kidnapped your wife and daughter. They are
> known 
> for gang raping, torturing and killing their captives. You happen to
> find 
> and capture a couple of them. They know where your wife and daughter are
> 
> being held, and have told you that they have only a short time left
> before 
> the raping, torturing and killing begin. What do you do to get the 
> information where your wife and daughter are being held? If you just ask
> 
> them nicely to tell you where they are being held do you think they
> would 
> tell you?  What length would you go to in order to get them to tell you
> the 
> location at which your wife and daughter are being held?
> 
> Face it folks, times have changed. The Geneva convention was written to 
> protect the rights and dignity of military personnel captured on the 
> battlefield, not terrorists that cut off hands for punishment, or use a
> wood 
> chipper for "executions" or use poison gas on minority populations. I am
> 
> getting sick and tired of hearing the ilk of Ted Kennedy and his gang
> trying 
> to compare what our military did to what Sadam's henchmen did. How can
> you 
> compare putting panties on someone's head with giving them a bath in
> nitric 
> acid? These terrorists are out to kill you, your wife, daughters and
> sons. 
> They are out to kill your way of  life. They are out to impose their
> version 
> of Islam on you and the rest of the non-Islamic world. What regime do
> you 
> want to live under? Please, let these military people do what they can
> to 
> find out where the next strike is planned. And remember that these 
> terrorists they are watching in the Iraqi prisons are not there because
> they 
> broke the speeding law or stole a candy bar from the neighborhood
> grocery. 
> They are there because they are terrorists and want to kill me, my
> family, 
> your family and my and your way of  life.
> 
> This is a site to discuss Leica cameras, lenses and accessories and the 
> taking of Leica pictures. Please take all criticism of our military to
> sites 
> set up for that purpose
> 
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