[Leica] Forte and Forte: Was, Even us natives don't write English good"

[jls at runbox.com (Jeffery Smith)]

Which is what I indicated earlier...if people do it incorrectly long
enough, then the norm becomes the rule even if it is incorrect. And I'm
not using "old printed dictionaries". I learned it correctly 40 years
ago.

But I am a conservative in language, and would like things to remain as
they were, not as they are mispronounced. I even shun removing the final
comma from phrases such as "Larry, Moe, and Curly" as deleting that
second comma always means that I have to go back and reread the sentence
again.

I suppose that, before I expire, I will be reading about complimentary
DNA. I suppose that means that adenine and guanine will be saying nice
things about thymine and cytosine, or that you can have the DNA free,
compliments of the house. But as long as people don't know what
complementary means, I guess we should go with the one word they do
understand.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA


-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+jls=runbox.com@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+jls=runbox.com@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Borden
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 3:59 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] Forte and Forte: Was,Even us natives don't write
English good"


Marc James Small wrote:

> At 12:57 PM 5/9/04 -0500, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>> I'm more comfortable with the music version pronunciation. If I say
>> "fort", someone invariably corrects me.
>>
>
> These are two different words, though both descend from the Latin root
> "forti" meaning strong or forceful.
>
> One word comes through the Italian and means "with great force";  it
is
> used as a musical directive and is pronounced "for-tey" in USian 
> English.
>
> The other comes through Medi?val French and is a survival of the 
> earlier
> "campus forte" or "situs forte", both meaning a fortified location.  
> Our
> Modern English word "fort" derives from this word.  And, yes, when 
> "forte"
> is used to describe an outstanding quality or a strong qualification, 
> it is
> pronounced, "fort" in Modern English.


In Modern American English, at least among the people I hang around 
with, an outstanding quality or strong qualification is referred to as 
a "forte" and pronounced "fort-ay"

Let's see, searching Wordnet we get: 
http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn?stage=1&word=forte

>
> Check out any decent dictionary, from the modern versions of Webster 
> or the
> American Heritage Dictionary or, of course, the Oxford English 
> Dictionary.

The way folks speak in Princeton N.J. is fine by me. I hark from the 
parts William Webster harks from, and if he were alive today I'm sure 
he'd be using this sense of the term "forte".

In any case any linguist worth his or her salt would accept that when 
common usage in a community differs from some 'old printed dictionary, 
that its time to update the dictionary. Language is alive, and changes 
with time.

Now let's look at what the American Heritage Dictionary says ... I 
found this:

http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/086.html

>
> So, Jefferey, allow them to correct you.  Then you can correct THEM.

Well you can correct, but that would be contrary to the most common 
usage by contemporary Americans. Since the reason we have language is 
to communicate, I think its best to pronounce things the way they make 
the most sense to the most people. see 
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forte On the other hand: 
http://www.vocabula.com/archives/VRJune00.htm

Jonathan


_______________________________________________
Leica Users Group.
See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information