Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/05/05
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I think my problem is, I don't have my M6TTL to play with, and have gotten grumpy over it. It is out having the MP finder installed. Another sore point. ;-) I keep hoping it will return before I leave for the Dayton Hamvention next Thursday... gene B. D. Too busy playing with a new Olympus C8080 that just got dumped on my door step to keep making a fool of myself on THIS subject. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of grduprey@rockwellcollins.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:25 PM To: lug@leica-users.org Subject: RE: [Leica] Ten years behind? I think not. I did not say full frame did not matter, only that there are only 2 cameras which provide it. as far as those not using full frame, the Leica digital back has similar capability. Personally, if I did not have all Leica R lenses, I would buy the Kodak SLR PRO14n. In my book it shoots rings around the Canon 1Ds where it counts. I don't have any use for 10fps, heck I would be spending more time changing film than shooting at that rate. 4 fps is just about right. Then again I'm not a PJ either. I also do not deny that all these features have a valid use, I personally have no need for many of them. But saying the Leica Digital back and R8/9 package is a joke is also not true or fair, to many it will be the ideal package. We all have different needs and therefore we have many different choices. Some look at price, others look at features, others look at reliability and longevity, and then there are those who just look at how pretty it looks. Yes it is a shame Leica management shunned the SLR like they did, but the present camera is also a pretty nice package for those of us who do not need all the latest features. I would love to have a R8 or better yet a R9. But then I would have to give up either my SL or R4SP, as I do not need 3 SLRs. I cannot decide which of these excellent tools to give up. ;-) Gene |---------+--------------------------------------------------------> | | "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> | | | Sent by: | | | lug-bounces+grduprey=rockwellcollins.com@leic| | | a-users.org | | | | | | | | | 05/05/2004 02:16 PM | | | Please respond to Leica Users Group | | | | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------| | | | To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org> | | cc: | | Subject: RE: [Leica] Ten years behind? I think not. | >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------| This is funny, Gene - So after all the whining from people about wanting full frame, it really doesn't matter? What doesn't matter, quite frankly, is that jump from 8.5 mgp from the new Canon 1D Mark II CAMERA, to the 10 mgp of the Leica BACK. And the entire Canon camera costs about what the Leica BACK will cost - and it will shoot at something like 8.5 fps for up to 40 frames, have terrific autofocus, state of the art metering, an iso of 50 to 3200, etc. etc. etc. (And I am not a Canon user, btw ;-) ) The Canon, which can take Leica lenses for manual use, will blow the Leica out of the water, for about $2000 less for a complete camera. And yes, the Leica will also use film - once you use the "special" tool to remove the back and cover the CCD, etc. etc. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of grduprey@rockwellcollins.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:05 PM To: lug@leica-users.org Subject: RE: [Leica] Ten years behind? I think not. With the exception of two digital cameras, the 1.3 factor is the same as competition. Cost of the Leica Digital is higher but not that outrageous, IMHO, and the Leica has 10MB compared to 8 MB or less for the Nikon D1X/2H series and Canon 1D Mark II digitals, plus it has film capability. Seems a pretty even trade off to me. Now for the two that have greater capability - Canon 1Ds - 11 MB full frame, not that much greater than the Leica Digital, $7000+ dollars - $1000 greater than the Leica, or almost equal depending on which camera you mate to the Digital back, still the Leica has film capability - seems pretty well matched to me. The Kodak SLR Pro14 is $2000 approx. less with 14 MB full frame capability - Seems the real winner in the pack, if they could just get those people who are mesmerized by Canon out of their stupor. So the Leica digital SLR package is pretty much on good ground in my eyes. I know I will be buying one when the funds become available. Autofocus is no big deal to me, and no one is going to out do Nikon in the flash department any time soon. And no, I have not ignored the Low End DSLRs, they are going to beat the pants off of all the above mentioned cameras for the majority of users. Gene |---------+--------------------------------------------------------> | | "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> | | | Sent by: | | | lug-bounces+grduprey=rockwellcollins.com@leic| | | a-users.org | | | | | | | | | 05/05/2004 12:28 PM | | | Please respond to Leica Users Group | | | | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------| | | | To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org> | | cc: | | Subject: RE: [Leica] Ten years behind? I think not. | >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------| I would argue that the F5's matrix metering system is more sophisticated than that of the R8/9, as is the flash metering system. Does it really matter? Not if you don't miss it. YOUR not missing it, however, Feli, has nothing to do with my point - there are plenty of people still using LTMs and collapsible Elmars from the 40s and 50s who don't want anything more - nor should they. The point I am trying to make is that by not offering additional features, Leica limits its market. Just as by offering a digital BACK for the R8/9 - at apx $4000 US - with a magnification factor of 1.3, they make themselves completely non-competitive in the high-end digital world. Yes, there will be a number of units sold to diehard Leicaphiles, but I guarantee you that back will be ultimately viewed as an intriguing artifact, rather than as a serious offering. For someone who doesn't now have an R9, Leica will be selling a less-than-full frame, non-autofocus digital camera, with a comparatively low top iso, for just under $7000 - that isn't marketing, it's comedy. B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Feli di Giorgio Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:25 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: RE: [Leica] Ten years behind? I think not. On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 10:14, B. D. Colen wrote: > BUT...And I am NOT looking for a fight with the R crowd...by modern > SLR standards, those same R8s with what you say is great metering and > that great Leica glass, are definitely at least a decade behind the > curve in terms of features. R8 aficionados may not want those > features, but they are a given in the rest of the photo world, and > that - and pricing - severely limits the R market. > > BTW - to what Nikon are you comparing the R8's metering? > > B. D. What metering features is the R8 lacking and does it really matter? Feli _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information