Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/11/26
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Kit,
Ah, I see now where our differences are. My experiences have been in hard science (Chemistry), political science, construction, and photography. In all those areas there is much that has to be acquired before you can even walk properly, in writing and in fine art, the spiritual is transcendent, and so mutual learning is the better path.
I was not so much talking about force feeding facts, but in synthetic organic chemistry there are some hard walls that are pretty unyielding whether you are talking about strong exothermic reactions or reactions involving ureas, phosphates, and phosgene. In the construction business, you do have to know what codes are applicable to each trade and situation or the nice government agent will stop all work for a very long expensive while.
Different situations bring up different realities.
Don
dorysrus@mindspring.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Kit McChesney | acmefoto
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 5:05 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] my favorite martha graham quote
Don--
With all due respect, it is my feeling that everyone has the ability to be an artist, but the good teacher knows how to show the student how to find the artist inside. That has been my experience as a teacher. Also, my approach to life, and also to teaching, is taoist, so maybe we part ways there, philosophically/spiritually. Mentoring is a significant part of teaching, if you ascribe to a taoist way of thinking, you know that mentoring works both ways, and mentors and mentorees are always exchanging places in the relationship.
Every student I have ever taught, be it in writing or fine arts, has found what she/he needed to say by having someone help him/her to see what was already inside.
Teaching has nothing to do with forcing. Any more than "encouraging" a narcissus to bloom is about "forcing" bulbs. It is impossible to force anyone to learn anything.
We may be talking about the same thing. Perhaps semantics gets in the way and keeps us from seeing that we may be talking about the same issue.
I know that through art school I had a few teachers who felt that the teaching relationship consisted of an empty vessel--the student--and the wise old sage--the teacher--and that relationship got in the way of anyone's being able to learn anything. It was through working with the teachers who really knew that teaching was and is a sacred relationship, and that the student is not some ignoramus waiting to be shaped into the image of the teacher, that I learned the most. And when I set out to be a teacher, it was in continuing that tradition that I found my work as a guide, a mentor, a teacher, if you will, to have been the most successful.
Kit
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Don Dory
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:42 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] my favorite martha graham quote
Kit, in some sense I have to take issue with you in your quotes about teaching. The absolute best instructors I ever had were those who knew their subject so well they could come after you any way you needed. There was no bringing out the best in the students; it was forcing the students to take new roads in their personnel journey. Not only were new facts and methods sown, but the very way the subject is considered is altered.
Mentoring is only a very small part of teaching, showing the student not only how to take the scales off their eyes, but also to want to is the art of the very best teacher.
As far as learning from students, on the human level which is to say that everyone can teach me something then of course. However, as far as learning from a student in my areas of expertise then that is exceedingly rare. When I don't know much more than my students then I am not qualified to be teaching them and very little progress is made in our personal journeys.
In any case, have a good holiday and many thanks for your presence on the list.
Don
dorysrus@mindspring.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Kit McChesney
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:12 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] my favorite martha graham quote
A really good teacher knows that teaching is not really something you "do"
to others ... really good teachers are guides, people who are skilled in
helping others realize what it is they already contain, and how to bring it
forth. Being one who "does" and one who "teaches," as George confesses to
being (touché!) is one of those people who can do just that. The very fact
of their "doing" is in itself a guide to others to do the same.
After all, educate comes from the Latin "ducere," which means to lead or
guide. The best teachers are mentors, who realize that they themselves have
as much to learn from their students, and vice-versa.
Kit
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of George
Lottermoser
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:24 AM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] my favorite martha graham quote
Me.
Ted Grant11/25/03
>"someone who does and also teaches is?
Fond regards,
G e o r g e L o t t e r m o s e r, imagist
<€>Peace<€> <€>Harmony<€> <€>Stewardship<€>
Presenting effective messages in beautiful ways
since 1975
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web <www.imagist.com>
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Lotter Moser & Associates
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