Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/10/30

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Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - something something and now animals
From: sam <sam@osheaven.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:02:19 -0500
References: <9029CEF3-0B35-11D8-9DEE-0050E42E6E0B@shaw.ca>

I believe you are thinking about animals of the same species acting in 
concert when prompted by instinct for the survival of the whole. That is 
not the same thing as human beings saving animals by a conscience act of 
compassion. That we are able to act thus sets us apart from other 
animals, but in no way places a moral obligation to do so.

A few years ago a little boy fell into a gorilla pit and was protected 
by an older female from other gorillas that appeared to want to hurt the 
boy. That was an interesting phenomenon, but it would be pushing it to 
call that a reasoned response, and is not evidence that people and 
animals ought to be treated in the same manner.

I stop my car for wayward animals on the road because I make the 
decision not to hurt creatures needlessly, but I don't extend that 
courtesy to animals used to further research that aids human beings. 
PETA has self-righteously set itself up as the arbiter between the 
rights of animals and humans. I do not accept their determinations 
because I believe they have the relationship between humans and animals 
wrong.

Sam S



John Collier wrote:
> While the first statement is undoubtedly true, the second is not true at 
> all; and, ironically, simple and sentimental. There are many cases of 
> animals putting themselves at risk to assist another. So far, whenever 
> humanity is defined by basic actions or ideas, these same things are 
> found in other species. It is better to stick to simpler things when 
> defining species. Also most basic psychoses have also been found in 
> animals as well; at least as far as we are able to tell.
> 
> John Collier
> 
> On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 03:00 PM, sam wrote:
> 
>> The issue is one of power. There is no life form but man that would 
>> suffer to save another life form while placing itself in danger for 
>> doing so. That is exactly why PETA is dangerous. They ply the notion 
>> of equality for life forms to the simple and the sentimental. It's 
>> hard to know why they hold such ridiculous ideas other than that they 
>> suffer from self-hatred--a condition not shared by any other life > form.
> 
> 
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Replies: Reply from "Jon" <jon.stanton@comcast.net> (Re: [Leica] OT - something something and now animals)
In reply to: Message from John Collier <jbcollier@shaw.ca> (Re: [Leica] OT - something something and now animals)