Re: [Leica] Collectors or users driving the used M market???

[thibault collin <tc-lnc@u-picardie.fr>]

At 13:02 09/11/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>Mr. Colburn is confusing Leica collectors with occasional users.  Leica 
>collectors in general want mint items unless something is really rare  
>(or really cheap that can can be resold at a profit).
>
>I gave him four or five basic factors on why his argument was flawed and 
>he responded to me with an analogy about how hard it is to buy a used 
>Fender Strat (pre and now post CBS) due to collectors...... which I 
>doubt... I think it's more due to users as well.  But users does not 
>necessarily constitute professional photographers or guitarists.  I think 
>he wants to buy a Strat and can't afford it...
>
I think the first interest in buying a used M-body (and especially an old
one like M2,M3) is the price!
The most important thing for the photographer are the lenses...who cares
about the body, as soon as it works!
The result will therefore be the same whatever body you are using.
The comparison with Strats is not so easy.
I think that the reason why it very difficult to get a pre CBS strat or a L
serie (like C. lenses...)
is the collectors. Of course some musisians (especially rockers) want to
play on an old strat, but if they want to use it professionally, they will
have to have it nearly totally rebuilt, with a reinforced neck, new pickups
and so on...More over, some will need a full time technician to take care of
the old axes like SRV used to have.
This solution is getting very rare among musicians. Most of the musicians
use new instruments because they are 
more often right in tune, the pickups (even vintage copies) sound right and
if it get stolen you can got buy the same rightaway at the local dealer.
With a guitar, it's the sound that is important, as long as you're a
musician...If you care more about your look than about your sound (say,
you're a rocker...) the old guitar argument may be decisive...


>The fact is that as long as a new M-6 costs $1800.... and a used one 
>$1400..... it's doubtful that you'll find any M-body for less than $700 
>or $800.  There just isn't that much functional difference between models 
>and a M-3 still has a higher magnification than any other M-body.  The 
>fact is some people like early editions because of various quality 
>factors.   And it's cheaper to buy a used M-3 than a M-6..... 
>
>Leica has used a number of special editions to raise money for charity 
>including the one King Buhimiphol edition that Jim mentioned.  The 
>project is hopeful of raising $3.6 million dollars towards an 
>environmental project. Leica is also donating the 2,000,000 Leica to be 
>auctioned with the proceeds going to the project. The HCB model proceeds 
>were given to charity as well.
>
>A M4-2 is shunned by collectors and it's hard to find one under $800.  I 
>did a rough survey of a Shutterbug and found about 260 M-2's, M-3's and 
>M-4's..... no shortage there.... interesting enough was that there were 
>only 120 some Nikon F-3's.  I remember talking with a dealer who told me 
>that he sold almost no M cameras to collectors as they already have mint 
>M-2's, M-3's, M-4's MD's and M-1's in their collections.  Mostly it's to 
>hobbyists and pro's who are rediscovering the M camera and it's become 
>the somewhat of an "in" camera again.  Pro's are more and more buying 
>near mint equipment that they will use and abuse over time.
> I saw a still unidentified M-camera  in a TV add briefly this weekend (3 
>times) for a rather feminine hygiene product........  
>
>If it weren't for the more affluent who get rid of their rarely used 
>M-cameras after using it a couple of times...... and if every collector 
>or owner used it instead of selling it......  there wouldn't be a used 
>market and then we'd all have to buy new cameras and lenses. Besides that 
>Leica stays in business only if people by new cameras and lenses..... 
>otherwise it dies.
>
>Mr. Colburn responded:  "If Leica would get off their corporate asses and 
>start designing something new and different then maybe they'd have a 
>chance in the marketplace without screwing the photographic consumer".
>
>I didn't find the whole thing funny either..... I found it to be a bit of 
>a grudge about not being able to buy something cheaply and a bit 
>self-centered in deriding those who want to own arguably the finest 
>camera in the world.  
>
>Duane Birkey
>
>HCJB World Radio
>Quito Ecuador 
>
>