Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1996/07/31
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I have bought a few items from Jim Kuehl over the years - he is a long time
Shutterbug advertiser. On the rare occasions when I have had to return
something, he has never given me any problems and is a fair person to deal
with. His prices seem generally 10-20% lower than Tamarkin's, though I
should add that Tamarkin is also extremely professional to deal with.
Others, far more knowledgeable than I, will give you guidance on what to
buy, but a low cost entry option, given your preference for wide lenses, is
a good used M2 (~$1100 should get you an excellent example) with 35mm and
50mm Summicrons. Unless you need the f/1.4 speed the Summiliuxes offer, the
f/2 Summicrons are generally regarded as the finest lenses around. The
later black alloy mounts are lighter than the chromed brass ones, the
performance contrastier. Some swear by the higher resolution of the earlier
Summicrons, others by the higher contrast of the later ones. All are great -
I have used old and new 50mm. The very latest ones have non-removeable lens
heads, precluding enlarger or close-up device usage.
A good Wetzlar 50mm Summicron in black alloy can be bought for $500, the
35mm counterpart $800. The latter is frequently Canadian, but the quality
of Canadian lenses, for this user, is as good as the German ones. Recent
correspondence on this list suggests that quality control has fallen at
Leitz, so look for lenses _without_ the focal length marked on the barrel -
distinguishing them as late-70s to early-80s - if you believe these
concerns.
The premium for the M4s seems high given the relatively minor advantages of
a cranked rewind (get an add on crank for the M2 for $10), a rapid loading
spool, and a (small) 135mm frame. Some aver the M6 is of lower quality, but
as I have not used one I cannot comment. The TTL meter is nice, as the M2
will need a clip on meter - $75-$200 - if you want coupled light readings.
Later M2s (some early ones may have been retrofitted) add the frame preview
lever missing on the early ones (35/50/90 frames) and a lever rather than a
button to permit rewinding. I'm not sure of this, but I believe that earlier
ones omitted the self timer as well. The M6 has no self timer either.
My M2, used mostly with a 35mm f/3.5 Summaron lens (mint - $395 - from Sandy
Ritz ((800) 956 9132), cost the very small sum of $500 2 years ago + $150
for a thorough cleaning by John Maddox ((864) 297 6931). Rangefinders in
older cameras can be dim, either because of dirt on the RF mirror or loss of
silvering. Mine was dirty - an easy fix. Resilvering is probably costlier,
mandating removal of the RF unit (=labor $). The camera is a tad scruffy
looking, but works perfectly. I also had Mr. Maddox replace the brass strap
lugs with Leitz stainless steel ones - the brass originals are soft and mine
were almost worn through. If you really need the M6 frames (28mm and 75mm
added) you can get them retrofitted, but I cannot think this is cost
effective. At least with the M2/M3 viewfinders you only see one frame at a
time, thus avoiding finder clutter. If you plan on using the 28mm, the M6
will not need a separate viewfinder. The (expensive) 21mm always does.
Given the choice of the best feel, I would go for a very early 2-stroke M3.
The slower film wind is not really noticeable in practice and the camera
has that something in the feel which speaks to me. Intriguingly, the wind
lever is a fraction shorter than on later M3s and all M2s, further adding to
the feel. Beware the strap lugs though. A different design, which my
repairman says he cannot replace. No 35mm frame on the M3, though,
(50/90/135), so you will need either a (clunky) bespectacled 35mm (I use a
superb chrome Summicron) or a separate finder. Speeds are the old
progression (10, 25, 50, 100, etc) but who cares as long at they are
accurate?
Hope this helps. My comments are those of a 25 year M3 (and 2 year M2)
amateur user. I cannot advise you on collectible status other than to say
that the Glass case set makes prices higher for all of us.
By the way, here is Sandy Ritz's current list from:
http://www.ritzcam.com/catalog/Contents/LeicaMBodies.html
M2 w/ 50mm f2.8 Elmar as close to mint as I have ever seen! #942xxx (10-)
$2695
M3 DS,hardly used, few slight rubs #748xxx (10-)
$1595
M2 engr., some wear ,clean user #935xxx (9-)
$695
M2 #994xxx (9-)
$895
M2 R Small amount of chrome discoloration on front, Vulcanite
10-, base 9+,
top 9++, back 10-, slight lug wear on one side only #1249xxx
$2,295
M3 DS #806xxx (9-)
$895
M3 DS #818xxx (9++)
$1495
M3 DS #917xxx (9+)
$1295
M3 DS w/ Papers #736xxx (9++)
$1495
M3 DS #862xxx (9++)
$1395
M3 SS #991xxx (9)
$1395
M3 SS #959xxx (9++)
$1495
M3DS base 8 otw 9 #839xxx (9)
$795
M2 button rewind, w/ strap, base 9++, top 9-, paint wear on
back, Vulcanite
9+, some lug wear #947xxx
$950
35mm f2.0 Summicron Bk w/ caps shade #2974xxx (10-)
$695
35mm f2.0 Summicron Wetzlar in bubble #2394xxx (10-)
$895
35mm f2.0 Summicron w/ eyes #2066xxx (9+)
$795
35mm f2.0 Summicron blk. in bubble and box #2316xxx (10-)
$995
35mm f2.8 Summaron w/ eyes #1615xxx (9+)
$450
35mm f2.8 Summaron w/ eyes #1665xxx (9+)
$450
35mm f3.5 Summaron #1179xxx (9)
$295
35mm f3.5 Summaron w/ eyes #1488xxx (9+)
$349
35mm f3.5 Summaron w/ eyes #1520xxx (9++)
$395
35mm f3.5 Summaron w/eyes #1435xxx (9)
$350
35mm F3.5 Summaron w/ eyes #1362xxx (9++)
$349
35mm f3.5 Summaron w/ eyes #1520xxx (9++)
$395
35mm f3.5 Summaron #1274xxx (9++)
$350
35mm f3.5 Summaron #1564xxx (9++)
$350
50mm f1.4 Summilux #1661xxx (10-)
$895
50mm f1.5 Summarit #1331xxx (9+)
$395
50mm f2.0 Summicron #1530xxx (9+)
$650
50mm f2.0 Summicron #1403xxx (10-)
$550
50mm f2.0 Summicron DR in box (CLA) #1446xxx (9++)
$595
50mm f2.0 Summicron collapsible #1349xxx (9+)
$395
50mm f2.0 Summicron Collapsible engraved, cleaning marks
#1318xxx (9)
$295
50mm f2.0 Summicron collapsible #1190xxx (9+)
$395
50mm f2.0 Summicron collapsible #1194xxx (9+)
$395
50mm f2.0 Summicron collapsible #1193xxx (9+)
$395
50mm f2.0 Summicron DR w/ eyes (clean but slight crack)
#1784xxx
$595
50mm f3.5 Elmar #142xxx (9+)
$395
ThomaP@nacm.com
----------
From: owner-leica-users
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Trying to decide what to buy.....
Date: Tuesday, July 30, 1996 9:03PM
Just recently "signed on." I owned a Leica early sixties and have
decided to buy another. Bought a book by Brian Bower and have ordered a
couple more. I don't need another camera. I just want a Leica and would
appreciate any help on what to buy as far as lenses and bodies.
The camera would be used with a maximum of 50mm and presently am
planning on buying a 35mm and 50mm F2. There seem to be several
different lens designs....or, at least improvements along the way. Also,
not sure about whether to buy black or silver lenses; think that I
remember reading that the black is an alloy. Definitely do not want an
M5. Though I don't want to spend the price of a new camera some of the
better condition M4s are about $2000 and presently M6 factory
demonstrators are advertised for $2200. And, boy do the prices of the
used cameras vary.
Any guidance and help would be well received.
Thanks,
George Callender
Virginia Beach, VA
PS. Are there companies out there that have proved reliable in the
second hand market? At present am planning on "most likely" buying from
Tamarkin in New York.