Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/05/20

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Subject: [Leica] fraud on the LUG
From: dorysrus at (Don Dory)
Date: Thu May 20 13:37:37 2004

OK all, I went back and re-read most of the account of the black paint
M3.  I think the key point is intentional fraud.  From Brian's post, the
seller was acting in good faith, believing the camera to be an original
black paint camera.  The buyer obviously received an item that could not
be authenticated as an original black paint camera or he would not carp
about the price.

The buyer, after receiving the camera without the authenticating paper
work, tried to return the camera for a refund. This would appear to be a
normal request for an item whose value depends on some unique aspect, in
this case black paint, which could not be authenticated.

If any of you know more about this matter I would be glad to hear about
it, but my point still stands.  Do not buy anything sight unseen unless
you can afford to throw the money down a rat hole.  No amount of policy,
written procedure, or agreed upon terms is going to work when things go

Just look at what Kyle has on his hands.  He has a clearly copy written
image, the law is pretty settled in this case, and he is somewhat
powerless unless Guido does a Ted on the perp.  For those of you who
quibble about being registered, that only applies to non economic
damages.  Kyle can prove that he is a published, paid photographer and
therefore can charge anything that he wants to publish as his price
list.  The advice to send a demand letter with a bill is the correct
legal procedure.  Something along the lines of: I wanted to remind you
that my customary rate for altered images on the web is $5000 per hour
on the server.  My records indicate that this image has been up for 308
hours which brings this months total to $1.5 million with the volume
discount.  A companion letter to the server operator and anybody up the
food chain informing them of their liability for continuing to publish
this image without payment should do the trick.  I think an address in
Alabama should do the trick.


Replies: Reply from buzz.hausner at (Buzz Hausner) ([Leica] fraud on the LUG)
Reply from jbcollier at (John Collier) ([Leica] My Black Paint is Better than Yours)
Reply from timatherton at (Tim Atherton) ([Leica] fraud on the LUG)