Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/02/16
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Just to put a different bend to this - The Digital Rebel!? Better check
out the new Nikon D70, it eats the digital rebel for breakfast! Everyone
complained about the M7 turn on time of a few seconds, what about the
digital rebel? It has a 3 second turn on time!! The new Nikon D70 is
Instant On - Zero Delay! The D70 has continuous firing rate in normal
(read low to medium) resolution of up to 177 frames where everyone else is
maybe 12 There are other features which are more important that also out
perform the digital rebel also including the packaged lens. the EOS 1D Mk
II? Ok it has 2 Mpix more than the 1D, but still a 1.5 factor for lenses
and does not equal the 1Ds or the Kodak 14 cameras but this is ok to you
guys/gals? Why not put the same criteria you use for Leica? You seem to
be able to live and love these other products, but if Leica gets the
plastic seal around the box containing the camera not quite sealed there is
a major flap about quality control etc.
As Ted put it, we need to wait until the digital M is out or near market
before we dump on it as a total waste of engineering time.
Gene
"B. D. Colen"
<bdcolen@earthlink.net> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent by: cc:
owner-leica-users@mejac.palo Subject: RE: [Leica] Digital Bessa, NOT
-alto.ca.us
02/16/2004 08:31 AM
Please respond to
leica-users
It may not be out until early next year? As in 10 months from now -
versus what will probably be 3-5 years for Leica? BTW, no one has said
that this is to be a full-frame CCD, and if it's not, producing it
becomes much less complicated.
I'm most amused by the assumption that this will be a $2000 dog, which
won't upset people as much as a $5000 Leica dud - I don't know about
you, Don, but I'd be pretty pissed off if I bought a $2000 lemon. But I
don't know where the $2000 comes from - I'd guess around $1000. We're
talking no lens, an already existing body, and less than a full-frame
sensor; look at the price of the Canon digital Rebel.
And while I'm responding to this one -
As to the comment yesterday about the Digilux II - what you've described
is a grossly overpriced dog - 400 iso with "acceptable" noise; to get
serious results you need to shoot raw and over expose by one to two
stops; an acceptable viewfinder; and a price tag of almost $2000? That's
an insult to consumers, not a Leica. Sure, it looks and feels like an M,
but read your own description, and then read what people have always
said about Leicas and quality - there is a world-class disconnect here.
Also, the suggesting that a sensor this size is turning out 16x20s equal
in quality to those produced with identical iso 2 1/4 film from Kodak
and Fuji is laughable. Tri-x 35, why not? But the question is - who
produced the prints? Where did they produce them? And how did they
produce them?
Forget the tradeshow demonstrations - look for some real world results
and reviews.
B. D.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Don Dory
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:25 PM
To: Leica-Users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: [Leica] Digital Bessa, NOT
I saw the display in an acrylic tower. Something locked up in acrylic
is not going to be available in 6 weeks. I talked to a very reliable
source and there is no expectation of a new body in even 6 months. New
lens(es) yes, a digital body no. Speculate all you want about how awful
Leica is, but there is not going to be a digital Bessa available this
year. Could Cosina get one out by very early next year, possibly.
Please bear in mind that there are very few foundries that sell chips
outside their interest group. Sony, Kodak, Kyocera, Micron, Mitsubishi,
Phillips and possibly one or two more. For the most part, production is
spoken for, especially on the better chips. Say you want a generic 3MP
CMOS then you can buy all you want, especially in the smaller sizes. But
if you don't have technology or some other interesting trade then you
are not going to get any chips APS size or larger. So, what does Cosina
have to offer Sony? A digital Bessa would only be of interest if the
magnification factor is in the 1.5 ratio or smaller. That leaves Kodak
and Panasonic as suppliers. I don't think there are going to be too
many extra 6MP chips available as the D70 is going to suck a whole lot
of those out of the pipeline as well as the istD and maybe the Minolta
which was also announced.
Also please consider that Cosina has a lot of optical expertise and not
a lot of electronic ability, just like Leica. Therefore they also need
a partner. A more rational thought is that both Cosina and Leica will
use the same equipment set: they would both need similar custom low pass
filters that also redirect light back to vertical for the wide lenses.
Cosina could be the beta tester of similar technology as people would
not be as bent out of shape with a $2000 lemon as a $5000 dud Leica.
0.02
Don
dorysrus@mindspring.com
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