Re: RE: RE: [Leica] Interesting piece on the Digital R

[gregj.lorenzo@shaw.ca]

Good one B. D.! Vintage Colen: deny, deny, and accuse anyone who tells you you're full of it that they need professional help! 

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:56 am
Subject: RE: RE: [Leica] Interesting piece on the Digital R

> I was talking about the "R," Greg, the elephant onto which the
> electronics are being grafted...My  my, we are sensitive today, aren't
> we.;-)
> 
> And I really don't need a preface for any of my opinions, Greg. In the
> first place, anyone who's been on this list for any length of time 
> has a
> general idea of what they are, and also knows my photographic work.
> Further, they also know that for some reason - that only you and your
> analyst could possibly understand - you can counted upon to provide,
> with mind-dulling regularity, to provide post-scripts for me in 
> the form
> of gratuitous and insulting remarks.;-)
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of
> gregj.lorenzo@shaw.ca
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:32 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: RE: [Leica] Interesting piece on the Digital R
> 
> 
> B. D. Colen wrote:
> 
> 
> > Well you can be entertained, Greg - But not being one of the 
> > independently wealth in this group, I don't "try something out 
> in the 
> > real world for a reasonable period of time" when it comes to 
> camera 
> > systems - I can't afford the pleasure. I read about the camera; 
> I 
> > handle the camera; I compare the camera's capability to other 
> > available systems and then I make a commitment to whatever seems 
> to 
> > make the most sense for me.
> 
> That's very interesting B. D.. Perhaps you could enlighten me on where
> and when you handled the Leica Digital R **which is the subject matter
> under discussion** prior to making this informed comment:
> 
> "2 - These controls are weirdly laid out. I was particularly put 
> off by
> the four buttons down the left side, which struck me as weird
> placement."
> 
> After all we're not talking about making a logical "commitment" to a
> certain camera. As to "independently wealthy", in my experience those
> who are lucky enough to have such independence created it with a
> combination of their brain's and their hands and their sweat and 
> not by
> luck. As to what this has to do with writing what you know about a
> subject in an informed and educated manner I do not know.
> 
> Why not just preface all of you negative future pontifications with:
> "I'm not independently wealthy, I've never owned or even used this
> camera or lens and here's my so very germane critique."
> 
> 
> > 
> > Certainly it is no secret that I feel that Leica has always been
> > behind the curve with its reflex cameras. That doesn't mean that 
> > they don't create great images, don't have great glass, or aren't
> absolutely the
> > right tool for some people - Good God, look what Doug, and Ted 
> do with
> > them, just for two examples among many.
> 
> When a Ted Grant or a Doug Herr post their thoughts about a Leica R
> camera or lens it's not entertaining blather but *informed 
> Professionalopinion*. Don't tell me you can't recognize the 
> difference?
> More to the point: "Certainly it is no secret" that you 
> participate on a
> Leica Forum specifically to continually pontificate about all things
> Leica in a extremely negative manner. Perhaps you are really the 
> "Troll"you so readily and frequently accuse others on the list of 
> being! 
> 
> > But I don't like the ergonomic
> > one little bit, I don't like what I consider the limited feature
> > range,I don't like the lack of a choice between manual and 
> > autofocus, and I
> > don't like the very expensive and limited choices of lenses. 
> 
> Remind us again; how often have you used a Leica R camera or any 
> Leica R
> camera? Perhaps you should write consider writing NASA to tell 
> them what
> you think of the layout of the control panel in their Shuttle.
> > 
> > What I find most amusing, however, about this somewhat nasty, 
> "to the 
> > barricades" post of yours, is that I didn't attack the idea of 
> the 
> > digital R - what I "attacked" was the downright silly so-called 
> > update,which was not an update at all, but rather was a typical, 
> > prettypathetic, Leica marketing brochure - well, single page of 
> photos
> > of "engineers." I said, in fact, that the idea of a camera with 
> the 
> > ability to handle both film and digital is quite exciting.
> 
> Why be surprised that occasionally you catch a fish when you 
> commence to
> Troll? By the way I suggest that you may want to read what you write
> prior to posting it, then reread it again. To wit: "2 - These controls
> are weirdly laid out. I was particularly put off by the four buttons
> down the left side, which struck me as weird placement."
> 
> > 
> > As to my comments on Leica digital - No, I do not use Leica
> > digital - which is, in my non-engineers opinion, and the opinion of
> many other
> > people, over priced, and under-featured. And, as we know, is not 
> even> really Leica digital. I cannot fathom why, if someone liked 
> the design
> > of the Digilux 1, they would for an instant consider paying a 
> premiumto
> > buy a red dot when they could buy the camera as a Panasonic. ;-)
> 
> Perhaps you can "fathom" this. People are free to purchase whatever
> camera brand they like! Most people participate on this list because
> they like, and can afford to purchase Leica product's. Some people
> purchase Leica Digital Cameras because they want to support the
> manufacturer that has made other camera systems that they already own
> and they want to continue to see products in the future from that
> source. No one is forced to purchase anything they don't really 
> need or
> want.
> > 
> > But as to my "blathering on," this list is full of people who
> > "blather"on about the evils of "monster" DSLRs, about having to 
> > deal with a set of rediculous features, when they have never 
> owned a
> DSLR, have never
> > owned a modern film SLR, and know absolutely nothing about the 
> subject> they're "blathering" on.
> 
> I suggest that you look into a mirror while rereading this. There 
> is an
> old saying: if the shoe fits wear it!!
> 
> 
> >And oddly enough, I don't see you asking them if they've used the 
> >equipment >they "blather" about. BTW - how anyone can "blather" 
> about 
> >"monster" DSLR's and >willingly deal with an R8 or 9, which to my 
> mind 
> >looks and feels like a cement block >on steroids, I'll never know.
> 
> There was a time when there were real "Experts with Expert Opinions".
> These people would rope off an area of inquiry, or interest, of weight
> and consequence, and make themselves, by a combination of industry,
> enthusiasm and intelligence masters of that subject. These type of
> people are quite simply Professionals. Ted and Doug fully fill the 
> billhere. You do not. More of the same from you won't change that. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > [owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Greg J. 
> Lorenzo> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:47 PM
> > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Interesting piece on the Digital R
> > 
> > 
> > Adam Bridge wrote in part in response to B.D. Colen:
> > 
> > >"I don't remember if you use an R but if you do"
> > >
> > 
> > Now Adam, that's the rub. I believe if you check the LUG Archives
> > you'll
> > find that B. D. is about as familiar with Leica R cameras and 
> > lenses as 
> > he is with Leica Digital or Astrophysics. Why try something out 
> in 
> > the 
> > real world for a reasonable period of time before you 
> continually 
> > blather on about it, when you can just continually blather on 
> and 
> > on and
> > 
> > on about it? The other advantage of this method is it allows you
> > much 
> > more time to blather on!
> > 
> > Keep this in mind when you read B. D.'s latest pontificating about
> > anything Leica R or Leica digital. I do, and it provides me with 
> > no end 
> > of entertainment!
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > > 
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > 
> > 
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