Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/12/17

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Subject: RE: [Leica] Miserable Failure
From: <telyt@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:57:48 -0500

You don't need to respond to this Doug, but as you have, in effect,
chosen to impugn my integrity on list, I'd really appreciate it if you'd
spend a bit of time in the archives to find what you think are the times
in the distant past it which I shilled for Olympus. I know you're full
of shit on this, and if you're going to be honest with yourself - so do
you.

Best

B. D.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Douglas
Herr
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:22 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] Miserable Failure


BD, believe what you wish.  I'll not discuss this further with you on or
off list.

Doug Herr
Birdman of Sacramento
http://www.wildlightphoto.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
Sent: Dec 17, 2003 9:13 AM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] Miserable Failure

Pardon me, Doug - But that is absolute and total horseshit that I had
been "pushing the Olympus digital stuff long before" I'd told the list
that I was being supported by them. I have always said that I think the
Olympus Stylus Epic is THE point-and-shoot film camera bargain of all
times; and that had nothing to do with a relationship with Olympus
because I didn't have one. Aside from that, I wasn't pushing a damn
thing - hell, I didn't know anything about the equipment prior to my
getting it.

As to your paying any attention to my opinion on SLR equipment, I quite
frankly don't care if you do or don't evaluate it - I've been shooting
with SLR equipment of various kinds since about 1964; I do not have a
"virulent dislike" of the equipment you shoot with - I just think that
it is grossly overpriced for what it is, and I have always believed, and
still believe, that Leica has been consistently a good 10 years or more
behind the SLR curve. But what I have always said, over and over and
over, is that what matters is what works for the individual - if you
could get the kind of fantastic images you manage to get and could do it
using Holgas, you'd be crazy to switch to anything else.

But you really might think about why it so obviously gets so deeply
under your skin to have Leica criticized.

And - I'd appreciate it if you'd stick to facts when discussing my
relationship with Olympus and what I have and haven't told the list
about it.

B. D.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Douglas
Herr
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:57 AM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] Miserable Failure


BD, I don't particularly care whether you're on Olympus' payroll or not.
You'd been pushing the Oly digital stuff long before you'd told the list
they were supporting you, just as Erwin was spouting flowery praise on
new Leica gear long before he was obviously on their payroll.  I'll have
to take you at your word that you're telling us the straight scoop.  It
really doesn't matter much to me whether you're on their payroll or not.
If I valued your opinions on SLR equipment then it might matter but
since you have a virulent dislike for the equipment that works for me
then it's clear you don't know what I value in photographic equipment so
your experience with the Oly doesn't relate to my needs.

Doug Herr
Birdman of Sacramento
http://www.wildlightphoto.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
Sent: Dec 17, 2003 8:29 AM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] Miserable Failure


No, Doug - Erwin's extolling Leica certainly doesn't mean that you have
to go out and buy what he was pushing...But your "never questioning
whether Erwin was on Leica's payroll," and your "not giving a hoot"
whether he was, makes it see more than a bit odd that you would think
that I should mention my relationship with Olympus - they give me free
equipment and feature my work - "each time" I "extol" their virtues -
especially given the fact that, unlike Erwin, I have been completely
upfront about my conflict of interest. What is it, if it's a Leica
conflict it's irrelevant, but if it's a conflict connnected to another
manufacturer it's important? Come on, Doug, you're better than that. :-)


B. D.


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Doug Herr
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 8:56 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] Miserable Failure


on 12/16/03 2:12 PM, B. D. Colen at bdcolen@earthlink.net wrote:

> Well go spend some time in the archives, Doug, and refresh your 
> recollection - you'll see that depending on how you want to read what,

> either the first or second day I explained - in full - my relationship

> with Olympus. BTW, did you EVER raise a single question about Mr. 
> Puts' relationship with Leica? Or were you one of those - the vast 
> majority of those who expressed themselves on the subject on this list

> - who couldn't seem to grasp my asking questions about conflicts of 
> interest?
> ;-)
>

Calm yerself B.D., I've over 50 and I don't recollect like I used to.  I
think for the sake of newbies and us old codgers you ought ter mention
somthin about Olympus giving you the goods each time you extol their
virtues.  And BTW I never questioned whether Erwin was on Leica's
payroll 'cuz I don't give a hoot whether he is or not.  He's a good
technician and in his private newsletters (now discontinued) he also
praised good products of other brands.  So what?  Does that mean I have
to go out and buy what Erwin says?

Doug Herr
Birdman of Sacramento
http://www.wildlightphoto.com


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