Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/09/15

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Subsidies to private schools
From: Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:32:18 -0700
References: <15a.247d47c5.2c9768b0@aol.com> <p0521060cbb8bc9d25a87@[68.60.56.229]>

Ken

Gawd!  I wish that I had a pension like that!   After 50 years
in Aerospace, I get about HALF that!

Jerry

Ken Wilcox wrote:

> Well Larry, I didn't quibble about the pay amount you mentioned
> because this varies widely from state to state. The national average
> is about $43,000. When I retired two years ago my pay was nowhere
> near what you mentioned, and Michigan is one of the higher paid
> states. As far as that generous pension, mine is a whole $24,000.
>
> Ken Wilcox
>
> At 3:10 PM -0400 9/15/03, LRZeitlin@aol.com wrote:
> >In a message dated 9/15/03 12:44:31 PM, klw.51@comcast.net writes:
> >
> ><< In my state (Michigan) schools are paid per student enrolled, and
> >most of the money comes from the state. Therefore students lost to
> >vouchers or private schools by any means takes money directly from
> >the public school. As you said the private schools do cheery pick and
> >often they are only K-6 or K-8 schools, leaving the the more
> >expensive 9-12 students to the public schools.
> >
> >Your statement about teacher salaries is VERY misleading. Most
> >teachers I know spend a great dceal more than 6 hours on the job.
> >Grading papers, planning lessons, filling out misc. paperwork and
> >dealing with parents takes many more hours. Most teachers that I know
> >also spend The 2 summer months working on curriculum committees and
> >attending school to enhance their skills. >>
> >
> >You have made part of my point. It is the State and local communities that
> >decide how funds are allocated to public education, not the Federal
> >government.
> >The funds generally come from three sources, property taxes, the state general
> >revenue fund raised by income and use taxes, and, recently, statewide
> >lotteries. Michigan is to be complimented on funding public
> >education largely out of
> >general revenues since the tax load is spread more evenly. Still, those taxes
> >are paid for life by parents whose children attend both public and private
> >schools. Other states, including my own, New York, rely on property
> >taxes as the
> >primary source of revenue. The state suppliments these taxes on a per pupil
> >basis to equalize expenditure between richer and poorer communities, but these
> >state payments amount to less than 25% of the budget of even the poorer
> >districts. Some affluent districts receive no state aid at all.
> >
> >I have never heard of a state or school district authorizing a voucher of
> >more than $1000 per pupil to assist private education. There may
> >well be one, but
> >not near my district. The per pupil cost of education in my district is close
> >to $12,000 a year, the majority paid for by property taxes. This is half the
> >cost of tuition in an Ivy League university and a good deal more than the
> >tuition in most state colleges. It is also more than the tuition at
> >most private
> >secondary schools and about triple that of tuition in parochial schools. Logic
> >says that it would be more economical to close the public education system
> >down and sell off the properties, using education funding to pay the
> >tuition of
> >all students in the private school of their choice. But of course the NEA and
> >the AFT would condemn the practice as leading to the collapse of Western
> >civilization.
> >
> >As far as teacher's salaries, I notice you didn't quibble about the amount,
> >just the working hours. Teacher's pay and benefits have escalated dramatically
> >since the dark days of the '50s. In addition to long paid vacations, teachers
> >get full medical benefits and very generous state secured retirement programs.
> >Most also have job tenure, essentially meaning that they cannot get fired
> >unless they sexually assault their colleagues at high noon in the town square.
> >Removing a tenured teacher for cause in my state takes an average of
> >three years
> >of litigation and costs a school district an average of $500,000 in fees and
> >settlements. Admittedly some teachers work more than six hours a day and some
> >get drunk at lunch. There are good and bad eggs in every profession. Summer
> >training is laudable but additional educational degrees are usually
> >compensated
> >by salary increases.
> >
> >I spent 32 years in the bowels of the education system, both secondary and
> >university level and know whereof I speak. But I used a Leica to
> >photograph all
> >school events so that makes me a good person.
> >
> >Larry Z
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html
>
> --
> __________________________________________________________________________________
> Ken Wilcox
> Rescue a Greyound! Call 1.800.GO HOUND
> klw.51 at comcast.net                                           or
> visit www.rescuegrayhounds.com
> --
> To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html

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Replies: Reply from frank theriault <knarf.theriault@sympatico.ca> (Re: [Leica] Re: Subsidies to private schools)
In reply to: Message from LRZeitlin@aol.com ([Leica] Re: Subsidies to private schools)
Message from Ken Wilcox <klw.51@comcast.net> ([Leica] Re: Subsidies to private schools)