RE: [Leica] Equipment getting really cheap

["bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>]

I don't disagree with you Jim, about people's ignorance of the value of
M...I love my Ms...They are wonderful cameras....

But they are rangefinders, which the overwhelming majority of camera
users know nothing about, and they are film cameras, which are becoming
less and less popular....But no, there is at this point no digital
equivalent of the M, and is not likely to be one for quite a while...

That said, however, I have to say - as I have before - that I don't get
all the complaints about controls, dials, bells and whistles...use the
ones you need and want, and ignore the rest....

And don't take a camera on an assignment until you've mastered it...;-0

B. D.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Jim Laurel
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:14 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] Equipment getting really cheap


B.D.--
I guess my point is that M prices are taking a dive because of peoples'
ignorance.  Those who understand the special capabilities of the M
cameras (and exploit them) realize that there is no digital substitute
currently available.  As you say, the M is an old design, but I would
argue that it is still relevant today.  I'll be happy to abandon the M
cameras when a digital tool is available that allows me to equal or
better results than 35mm, with high speed interchangeable lenses, and
with a similar form factor.  Right now, the choices are either P&S
digitals or gargantuan DSLRs with nothing in between.  I am very fast
with an M.  With the 10D, all the buttons, modes, switches and whatever
are a hindrance.  A larger part of my thinking has to be about the
technology rather than pictures because the camera requires it.

I'm no luddite and am learning the 10D rapidly.  And best of all, next
year, I'll get to throw out everything I know and switch to the whatever
the market forces on us next.  :-{  But all my upcoming assignmnents are
digital, so I'm getting with the program.

I just reviewed a few images shot on the Olympic peninsula.  Some JPEG,
some RAW.  Many of the JPEGs are ruined because the camera's default (0
setting) sharpening turns chromatic aberrations into sharp lines that
outline areas of high contrast.  The first thing I did was to set my
color space to Adobe RGB.  Well, it turns out that you cannot use the
Adobe RGB color space and adjust in-camera sharpening at the same time.
Fortunately, the more important shots are in RAW format.  So, a
*default* setting buried 3 levels down in the menu structure can result
in a ruined photo.  Nice.  It's not so much a problem with the better
Canon fixed focals (the 35 f2 and 100 f2 are great), but the Canon L
zooms that everyone raves about are absolute crap in comparison to the M
lenses.  But hey, who cares about lens quality when you've got
Photoshop.

The other day, as a reward for having to learn the 10D, I treated myself
to an evening with the R6.2 and Summicron 35.  My kids and thier friends
were playing in the lake, which was very dark in contrast to thier faces
in the dimming light.  It would have thrown any matrix meter for a loop.
It was a joy to work with the spot meter on the R6.2, focusing,
shooting, using familiar skills - making real photographs.  A breath of
fresh air.  I'd post some if it were not for the LUG embargo on pics of
our children.  ;-)

Of course, I haven't seen the images yet, so it's off to the lab, which
is actually nice because it gives me a chance to get out of the house
and away from this bloody computer!

- --Jim


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Equipment getting really cheap


> Jim - I can certainly understand your not liking the digital results, 
> or preferring shooting with the M; I have trouble, however, you're 
> 'not getting' the decline in M prices.
>
> First, as I said, the economy has taken a real dive; second, the M7's 
> availability - with the AE most younger photographers now take for 
> granted; and the digital onslaught have all come together to hammer 
> all film camera prices.
>
> We may love the M - but face it; by current standards it is an 
> obsolete curio - a throw back to an earlier age of mechanical 
> rangefinder film cameras. The number of folks who use Ms is very 
> limited to begin with. But most of those who use Ms are hobbyists, 
> many of whom are attracted to the perceived advantages of digital.
>
> So M prices take a dive.
>
> B. D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Jim 
> Laurel
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:35 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Equipment getting really cheap
>
>
> I can understand why Nikon and Canon film bodies are taking a dive and

> that some people are jumping off the R ship, disappointed with Leica's

> digital R announcement.
>
> But I find drops in M prices a little puzzling.  There is no digital 
> product on the market that fills the market niche of the M cameras. 
> Nothing close. One day sensor technology will advance to the point 
> where it is possible to mount to build a digital body that will mount 
> M lenses.
>
> I have been playing with an EOS 10D for a few weeks now.  I just 
> replaced my 17-35 to the 16-35, as the former lens' deficiencies 
> became all too apparent on the digital body.  The 16-35 is a little 
> better, but they are both mediocre.  I can't understand why these two 
> lenses have become so popular. Convenience, I guess.  That seems to be

> what is valued most today.
>
> --Jim
>
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