Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/06/17

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Ortho-chromatic film
From: Slobodan Dimitrov <sld@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:40:52 -0700
References: <3EEF2666.650ED8B1@earthlink.net> <3EEF2B6E.E5192611@hemenway.com> <3EEF5B82.D2CC6502@earthlink.net> <3EEFC22B.93DCEF50@hemenway.com>

Jim;
 Thanks! I think what I might do is photograph a native/indigenous face
and then try to match the earlier work to the contemporary one.
Can't say when I might do it, maybe next week, or next year.
Slobodan Dimitrov

Jim Hemenway wrote:
> 
> Hi Slobo:
> 
> Earlier today, I thought that you were experimenting with, and asking
> about ortho lith films. So my answer was based on that wrong assumption.
> 
> As others have written today, you'll have a problem in that the ortho
> films were blue sensitive, (with a little yellow sensitivity) but not
> red sensitive.  Accordingly, areas such as "lipsticked" lips, red ties,
> red wagons, and red faces will be dark gray to black on the prints that
> you wish to scan.
> 
> When I started in photography in the very early fifties, my friends and
> I, (we had a pre-teen camera club in my basement) used Verichrome in our
> Brownie Hawkeyes and Ansco Reflexes and then developed them by
> inspection under a red safelight.
> 
> Using this film resulted in pictures of mothers and sisters in makeup
> with lips that printed almost goth black. Pictures of our fathers with
> ruddy faces looked sort of weather beaten, especially on their cheeks.
> My neighbor's red 1952 Chevy printed black. Eventually Verichrome Pan
> arrived and could be inspection developed with a green light, which was
> so dim as to be close to useless.  That's when we switched from tray to
> time and temperature developing in inexpensive plastic "Yankee" tanks.
> That was the brand name, not a state of mind.
> 
> Anyway, the pan films made peoples faces more natural looking and red
> cars appeared as gray rather than black when printed.  Ortho film
> disappeared for the most part in consumer films pretty quickly.
> 
> So... I don't know how you can accomplish the "real skin tonality" that
> you are seeking because the information for anything red isn't there.
> Colors with some red in them will appear as gray rather than black but
> the gray won't be a true reflection of the actual color, it will be
> darker than it would be with a pan film because of the red in it.
> 
> I think that the best that you can do is to use a tool such as the PS
> magic wand or the lassoo to isolated black areas which you think might
> have been red to lighten them, and skies which were probably blue but
> which are manifested as white, and darken them.
> 
> I'm sure that Richard K can give you a lot more information and history
> about ortho film.
> --
> 
> Jim - http://www.hemenway.com
> 
> Slobodan Dimitrov wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jim;
> > This is what I have in mind. I'm planning to scan a few portraits from
> > the early West, and tweeze the settings so that I can see what the real
> > skin tonality would of been, i.e. approximately.
> > Slobodan Dimitrov
> >
> > Jim Hemenway wrote:
> > >
> > > Slobo:
> > >
> > > If you've already processed it in a litho type, Kodalith) developer then
> > > you're probably out of luck as these are extremely high contrast
> > > film/developer combinations.
> > >
> > > If you've not yet processed, then develop it under inspection, (red
> > > light) in 1:1 or 1:2 Dektol.  The results will still not be panchromatic
> > > but rather contrasty orthochromatice... red items will appear very dark
> > > to black when printed.
> > >
> > > If anything can be done with PS to un-ortho it, then I'll be pleasantly
> > > surprised.
> > > --
> > >
> > > Jim - http://www.hemenway.com
> > >
> > > Slobodan Dimitrov wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anyone know what adjustments in PS, or any other software, can be used
> > > > to turn an image taken with ortho film into one that simulates the
> > > > tonality of pan-chromatic emulsions?
> > > > Slobodan Dimitrov
> > > --
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Replies: Reply from "Don Dory" <dorysrus@mindspring.com> (Re: [Leica] Ortho-chromatic film)
In reply to: Message from Slobodan Dimitrov <sld@earthlink.net> ([Leica] Ortho-chromatic film)
Message from Jim Hemenway <Jim@hemenway.com> (Re: [Leica] Ortho-chromatic film)
Message from Slobodan Dimitrov <sld@earthlink.net> (Re: [Leica] Ortho-chromatic film)
Message from Jim Hemenway <Jim@hemenway.com> (Re: [Leica] Ortho-chromatic film)