Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/08/05

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Subject: RE: [Leica] WOW! -but Jim likes NORMAL PHOTOGRAPHY
From: "Stuart Phillips" <Stuart.Phillips@umb.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:05:03 -0400

Was it voluntary or did someone sign you in?

Stuart Phillips



My Dear Lord Phillips:

What's this?  I leave you alone for a few days and return to find that
you've proven my point!

Your Humble Servant,

James

- --
Jim- http://www.hemenway.com


Stuart Phillips wrote:
> 
> James:
> 
> There's nothing wrong with my vision.
> 
> A young woman wins a number of prestigious international prizes for
> photography.  I've never seen her work before. I approach her work and
> try to understand her vision.  I read her statement(s) of purpose and
> try to understand what she is communicating.  I give her power by
> assuming that she has approved presentation of her work on the two
sites
> that I was pointed to, Leica's and www.in-public.com, and take it for
> what it is. I don't try to fit it into what you call my "cynical
> personal vision".
> 
> I don't try to compensate for my pathetically closed mind by trying to
> troubleshoot her monitor settings - (or assume her meters not working
> for God's sake). But your so right Jim - she's sitting on the beach,
> saying to herself, "Damn, if I'd only got my settings right, my
pictures
> would look like everyone else's.) So too dark. Yes, and Picasso's Blue
> Period was too blue. While we're at it, Gene Smith could have
lightened
> up the back ground in "Mad Eyes" so we can see what else is going on.
> Perhaps the fact that they don't follow your precious under any
"normal
> photographic standards" is the reason she's gathering up the prizes. I
> think she's very talented. What's cynical about that?  But hey, you've
> definitely got the beginnings of an aesthetic there. Look at a photo.
> Second guess at everything that could be changed until it resembles
what
> you think a photo should look like, then wonder why it got a prize.
> 
> If that's too abrasive, you've been watching too much TV news.
> 
> BTW I work in a cross-platform shop, and I don't understand why you
are
> jumping to silly defensive conclusions about Macs?
> 
> Stuart Phillips
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Hemenway [mailto:jim@hemenway.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 8:51 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Leica] WOW!
> 
> Stuart:
> 
> You can get off of your pulpit.  No one was condescending, it's just
> your cynical personal vision of people's intentions.
> 
> I have Macs and prefer them and simply mentioned that it's possible
that
> she forgot to adjust the photos on her website for the larger PC
> community... that's if she had created it on a Mac.
> 
> Several people said that they were too dark, not just "a couple."
> 
> Go LOOK AT HER WEBSITE, not the great beach shots, and then tell us
that
> many of those pictures are not too dark under any normal photographic
> standards.
> 
> For several days you've been abrasive in many of your comments.  Why
not
> just lurk for awhile and adjust your attitude?
> 
> It must be so hard for someone like you to put up with us inferior
> creatures.
> 
> --
> Jim - http://www.hemenway.com
> 
> Stuart Phillips wrote:
> >
> > It's really bizarre that the first thought that came to a couple of
> > people on the list is that her photos were a result of technical
> > malfunctions. Gee was it a faulty meter or the fact she's working on
a
> > Mac. Or maybe she's not telling her story quite clearly enough. How
> > condescending.  More likely we're not even her intended audience.
> >
> > Stuart Phillips
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ted Grant [mailto:tedgrant@shaw.ca]
> > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 6:39 PM
> > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] WOW!
> >
> > Kim wrote:
> >
> > >>> I'm not a pj, so help me out here.
> > >
> > > Is it that her work isn't....accurate enough?
> > >
> > > Is it that she's not telling a story?
> > >
> > > I guess I'm asking is it that you think her skills (whether
> technical
> > or
> > > compostional) aren't up to par or is it the ....content and format
> fly
> > in
> > the
> > > face of "traditional" photojournalism?<<<
> >
> > Hi Kim,
> > Good questions and from my point of view as a photojournalist I'll
put
> a
> > personal spin to them
> >
> > > Is it that her work isn't....accurate enough?<<<
> > Nope, it's different and accurate enough in her eyes. In mine? Well
> it's
> > difficult, as I don't see it as I've shot my work for 50 years as a
> > published photographer.
> >
> > >>> Is it that she's not telling a story?<<
> > To some degree, but these days everyone thinks they're
> photojournalists
> > with
> > a collection of single pictures, which wasn't the meaning originally
> of
> > photojournalist,  "a story teller with pictures generally on one
> subject
> > ."
> > And what we see in the pictures presented are a collection of
> > photographs
> > shot some what in "art fashion" instead, as what's considered
> > photojournalism.
> >
> > >>> I guess I'm asking is it that you think her skills (whether
> > technical or
> > > compostional) aren't up to par or is it the ....content and format
> fly
> > in
> > the
> > > face of "traditional" photojournalism?<<<
> >
> > No I think her skills are well up to par because if they weren't,
then
> > she's
> > one damn lucky photographer to capture the photographs we see.
They're
> > consistent in technique, so she's got the skills and then some.
> Actually
> > I'd
> > like to see more of what she shoots on a daily basis and not a
> selection
> > of
> > pictures shot over a period of time..
> >
> > Well the content certainly flies in the face of what's "traditional"
> > photojournalism, certainly  if you consider telling a story on a
> subject
> > as
> > traditional. That doesn't mean she's not a photojournalist, as she
may
> > do
> > major photo stories and that's where the PJ title comes from
> >
> > Put what you see here up against what was considered photojournalism
> in
> > the
> > old LIFE magazine then the subjects are miles apart.  Again this
> doesn't
> > mean she's not good.
> >
> > As Tina pointed out she's working as a staff shooter:
> >
> > >>But she works as a PJ - on staff at the Sydney Morning Herald.
"Now
> > based
> > in Sydney, Narelle is a staff photographer at the Sydney Morning
> Herald.
> > Previously, she worked at the Adelaide Advertiser. She was the
> principal
> > photographer for News Limited's London bureau and freelanced in the
> > USA."<<<<
> >
> > What would be interesting is, what she shoots for the paper and not
> what
> > we
> > see here.  Question is,  is she winning these awards for what she
> shoots
> > daily as a staff photographer or what's here? And if this is the
kind
> of
> > thing being published,  to what amount is the work used?
> >
> > Or what we see on her website, is it a  " personal photo project"
Or
> is
> > it
> > being shot for illustrations as her regularly published work?
> >
> > Not sure if this answers any of your questions and making a
judgement
> > call
> > on another photographer, certainly one who's won these awards, makes
> for
> > the
> > sound of sour grapes, so one must be very careful how one responds!
> ;-)
> >
> > ted
> >
> > --
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