Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/05/31

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Subject: [Leica] Re:Hanoi, Politics, and Getting Very Off Topic..
From: Darrell Jennings <darrell_jennings@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:10:13 -0700 (PDT)

Communism may be a diverse ideology, but it has not
created diverse governments in practice. The result is
totalitarian rule by a small number of "haves"
claiming to rule in everyones interest. While the path
they used to get there is different, the destination
of Communism and Nazism is the same...totalitarian
governments ready willing and able to kill millions to
stay in power. 

Capitalism exemplified by the U.S., U.K., much of
Europe, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, Canada (please
forgive me if I have left your country out in
oversight)represent thriving economies and generally
healthy environments to live and raise families.  Some
are more socialistic than others, but all qualify as
capitalistic in terms of their economy.  The U.S.
citizens are probably more independent, and trust the
government less than most of the above, but the
difference country to country is minimal compared to
looking at the difference between any of the above and
the "oppressed" countries of the world...which are
drpressed by their leaders not by capitalism. 

No major country has made communism work well.  Partly
because of how it was implemented (always
totalitarian), and partly because human nature is that
most people like to choose their own line of work (not
be told by someone in the government), and most will
work harder and more inventively for themselves and
their families that for a big impersonal "society" at
large. All you have to do is look at the little
islands of private opportunity in the old USSR and
present day China to see what their people are capable
of. 

All countries have their problems, but there are very
few people "living on the streets" in the U.S.
Unemployment overall is low.  Educational
opportunities abound...and the real test IMHO is that
many more people would like to come here (and/or any
of the counties listed above)from the third world. 

Where (I hope) we can agree is that there are still
many opressive governments in the world under both
economic systems, and in my view, a totalitarian
government is ALWAYS bad.  I know you don't live in a
totalitarian country...you have internet access. 

- --- Matthew Powell <mlpowell@directvinternet.com>
wrote:
> 'Tis my last post on this unless we move it to the
> LUGForum
> 
> On Friday, May 31, 2002, at 06:35 AM, Darrell
> Jennings wrote:
> > Communism is jut Nazism done in the name of "the
> > people" which is total bullshit since it is always
> > really done in the name of a charasmatic leader
> > (Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc.).
> 
> "Communism" is a very diverse ideology these days -
> and you'll find a 
> number of true Marxist throwbacks who oppose the
> authoritarian varieties 
> as much as anyone. And most socialists have rejected
> the USSR for 
> decades - starting with Debs in 1919 and continuing
> on.
> 
> The other is that while Stalinist Communism and
> Nazism are both 
> authoritarian and nationalist in nature, Nazism drew
> its support from 
> the capitalists and industrialists of the mid-war
> period, because it 
> strove to give them more power.
> 
> > Capitalism is far from perfect (but then so are we
> > humans), but it at least leverages motivated self
> > interest which is human nature. Any system that
> > ignores that is clueless.
> Why is "motivated self interest" associated only
> with "capitalism"? If 
> you live in a vaguely communal society, what's good
> for you is good for 
> the entirety of society and vice versa.
> 
> The true problem with capitalism is that it creates
> to classes of 
> people - the haves and the have-nots. You see it
> everyday here in the 
> States, people living on the streets. But on a
> larger level, it's the 
> wealth of the first-world against the abject poverty
> of the third.
> 
> --
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