Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/05/14

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Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Photoshop dilemma
From: "B. D. Colen" <>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:49:38 -0400

First, try reading what I have written, and you will see that I have never,
in any post on this subject, suggested that photographers can't be artists.

Second, if you think that my comments have constituted "personal attacks" on
you you haven't been on this list very long. ;-)

Next, as to the subject at hand =

I agree with you completely that there are photographers who are artists,
and photographers who are craftsmen.  Where we disagree, Darrell, and what
you seem unable to grasp, is that in the view of many photographers, someone
who builds artistic pieces out of photographic images is not producing
photographs, but rather is producing works of art built from photographic
images. That artist may well be a photographer, who in addition to producing
photographs, also uses his or her own photographs as materials with which to
do other kinds of art: but the fact that the person is a photographer does
not mean that the images they produce through construction/alteration
methods are what we speak of when we call something a photograph.

And, similarly, a photographer who produces what are called photographs may
be an artist, or may be a craftsman - but that judgment would probably be
made on the quality/originality/artistic merit of their work, not on whether
it is or is not manipulated beyond the ways in which one normally
manipulates photographic images in the printing process.

- -----Original Message-----
[]On Behalf Of Darrell
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Photoshop dilemma

There are photographers that are artists, and
photographers that are craftsmen.  I think there is
room for both.  You obviously don't and can only
respond by a personal attack on me...pretty
unprofessional in my view.

- --- "B. D. Colen" <> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> []On
> Behalf Of Darrell
> Jennings
> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 1:16 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Photoshop dilemma
> And I completely disagree....  I am NOT a Photoshop
> expert.  In fact I had never scanned a photo before
> two weeks ago, and only have Photoshop Elements
> which
> I have very limited expertise with.
> That said, I don't limit my view of photography by
> expecting that what I see in a photo is exactly what
> was there. There are many great photographs that
> were
> enhanced by use of filters and traditional darkroom
> techniques. I don't see Photoshop or it's
> competitors
> as different than that, they've just gone another
> step. In fact photographers like Jerry Uelsmann have
> done very altered realities for many years without
> using a computer to do so (check out
> for examples).  I still see this kind of work as
> photography.
> ------------------
> Well then, given that you have been scanning and
> using Photoshop elements
> for two full weeks, and given the fact that you
> consider a cut and paste
> image of lips emerging from a dirt road a
> "photographs," I guess there's
> really nothing I can add to the discussion.;-)
> B. D.
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