Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2001/09/13

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Terror
From: "Mārtiņš Zelmenis" <>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:16:21 +0300

I agree with you, only - it didn't happen the UN way. And we have to deal
with the situation.


>I believe a balanced discussion re Mr. Muir's position would require a
>revisit of the history that followed the WWII holocaust.  The land of
>Palestine, with no sovereignty of its own, had most recently been a British
>"protectorate".  The UN--the very same UN referred to by Mr.
>Muir--partitioned that land into two sections, to accommodate a newly
>state of Israel and a newly formed country of Palestine.  This was not
>acceptable to the neighbors of the newly formed state of Israel.
>Hugely outnumbering this tiny state, the neighbors (including Jordan,
>Iraq, Syria, various Arabian "oil states", etc. united and went to war,
>fully expecting to complete  Hitler's "unfinished business" and drive these
>survivors into the sea.  They did not succeed.  Had they accepted the
>original UN partitioning, I do believe the two countries could have been
>living in peace. Instead, Israel has lived with neighbors who want nothing
>less than its total destruction.
>I will not get into a protracted Arab/Israeli debate.  I recognize there is
>humanity on both sides.  I recognize there are perspectives which place
>emphasis differently from my own.  But the above historical reminder is
>needed for some balance to this discussion, since Israel's current position
>keeps getting mentioned in what seems to me to be some veiled justification
>for the horrendous hateful assault on the citizens and government of our
>United States.
>Respectfully to all the members of this list...........Julian
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alan Hull" <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 4:14 AM
>Subject: Re: [Leica] Terror
>I believe that this discussion is the most important discussion this group
>has ever engaged in.  This is life and death, and ALL means to dissuade the
>US and NATO from blindly lashing out with knee-jerk anger should be used.
>Please Please Please, cut through the grief and somehow touch base with
>humanity and try to understand that the white hot hatred that drives
>bombers will not be cured by a military response.  If your anger is so
>intense that you are unable to touch this base then use cold hearted logic
>and realise that if the US and NATO escalate this event then the next time
>the bombers strike it could be nuclear.  Solve the root problem, and this
>type of terrorism will go away
>I sincerely hope that my contribution to this topic has not lowered the
>standard of debate that has taken place here.  I do not have the education
>to take this discussion further.  I have spent nine years in the British
>military during a time when the primary enemy were terrorists from Northern
>Ireland, Malaysia, Borneo, Kenya and the Yemen.  I look at my four year old
>daughter now and shudder with fear for her.
>Quote from the URL below from Jim Muir of the BBC.
>The fact is that for more than five decades, in defiance of countless UN
>resolutions and of international law, the Palestinians' land has been
>occupied and their rights ignored by Israel, with full diplomatic cover and
>open-ended financial and military backing from Washington
>End of Quote