RE: [Leica] OT: Grainy dev. & film look?

["Tim Atherton" <tim@KairosPhoto.com>]

Ted,

A couple of things here, as I have been looking into this myself. I think
quite a lot has to do with the character of the antique/older lenses used.
Also, you are generally talking larger formats from this time period, which
were then often printed using methods not regularly used today (though still
available). Platinum prints give that wonderful look, especially if contact
printed from 8x10 or suchlike - as do some other older/alternative
processes.

On top of this, exposures were generally much longer. Edward Weston had a
theory that a long exposure gave a better negative. Some technicians pooh
pooh this, but I have to say that I (and many others) agree with him.

Sally Mann, in here latest landscape work has managed to capture an almost
Matthew Brady/Civil War type look by using old lenses she has collected, as
well as playing with development and printing (some she shot on Ortho film,
which give a different feel again). It is also there in some of here other
work of her family shots - a combination of light, lens & film, and her
printing. (and no flame wars on Mann's subject matter pleeease -  I doubt
she has ever used a Leica!)

Don McCullin, the great war photographer, almost gets a similar look with
some of his more recent landscape and India shots -  though generally in
those where he is using large of medium format - even in the jungles of
Irian Jaya - rather than his usual 35mm. Again, a lot of it is light. But
McCullin has always been a great printer, with a very distinct style.

Many of these types of shots are not usually that grainy, but often have a
rather shallow depth of field. They often do have, as well, a sort of soft
or dreamy feel to them. And even with today's modern emulsions and lenses,
there is a real difference between 35mm and large format film. One of the
reasons I don't believe in the "A Leica lens is sharp enough, that you don't
need larger formats" argument. Large format film, just because of its
nature, thicker film, often different emulsions etc, will most times give an
image much more "depth", shadow and highlight detail ( as well as being,
more often than not, obviously sharper in a similar enlargement). I was just
doing some urban landscape shots - I shot some scenes in both 4x5 and 35mm
(Leica M) and there is just no comparison. In both I was using the new
ProviaF. The 4x5 has a depth and sharpness that just isn't there in the
35mm, even though the 4x5 was shot with a 50+ year old Kodak Ektar 127mm 4.7
lenses - Ektars can be great lenses, although the 127 isn't the best.

I love my M6, but for this kind of thing, or for a certain feel, other
things are sometimes better.

Tim A

(waiting for my house to be firebombed by irate Luggers...)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Ted Grant
> Sent: June 21, 2000 10:00 PM
> To: LUG
> Subject: [Leica] OT: Grainy dev. & film look?
>
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'd like to try to get a similar "grain look ?" might better be
> described as, "glow look" like the photographs we see from the late
> 1800's, early 1900's.  Maybe not possible with modern films and
> developers.
>
> And as you know I'm not a techie type, so I wondered if someone has any
> ideas I might try.
>
> This question stems from finding an Aperture book on a photographer,
> Clarence H. White, American.  Who began his photography 1893, died 1925.
>  I must say this man had such an incredible understanding for using
> existing light that it's just amazing at it's use picture after picture.
>  They just glow and have such a beautiful aura to them I'd like to give
> it a go if possible.
>
> What his photography triggered in me was a curiosity to see if I
> couldn't emulate the "film, developer look" of his times. I'm not sure
> that it's possible with the high quality films of today but maybe over
> exposing and using a paper developer might do it with Tmax 3200 or
> similar film. As well as a softar filter of some sort to  add to the
> glow look.
>
> As I much prefer using existing light anytime, I felt if I can find the
> right film/developer combination maybe I can produce a similar look to
> some of my work.
>
> Any suggestions folks?  Be much appreciated.  Thank you.
>
> If  you are interested in this photographer Clarence H. White,  here is
> the book info:
> ISBN: 0-89381-019-3  Book title: Clarence H. White. Published by
> Aperture, one in it's series: "The History of Photography Series by
> Aperture"  1979.
>
> I also have a couple of old 1932 Leica lenses I'd like to try with it as
> that may add to the "old style look."  Maybe that's where some of the
> Leica glow comes in to play.
>
> ted
>