[Leica] FW: LUG Education

["Stuart Phillips" <stuart.phillips@umb.edu>]

Please do not email me off-list for threads on the list; as I know from 
other threads, it makes it rather difficult for others to follow.

You have, I'm afraid, totally missed my point:

1. It is possible to speak of British education in the same way that one 
can speak of Arab education.  Not to state that that phenomenon is 
identical in all respects in all geographical areas, simply that there are 
enough shared features to make the statement useful.  In this case I 
suggested that a notable feautre of the educational systems of all parts of 
the UK was that established and non established religions were both taught 
in schools and expressed during school events, a significant difference to 
the situation in the US.

2.As you say, Thatcher did not bring Scottish education into line with 
English education; she did however, work tirelessly to reduce the power of 
local authorities from London on north.  The fact that this came at the 
same time as a more than fifteen-year period of English neglect of Scotland 
does not change the issue.

I am an American Jew, (despite my name?!), and spent the largest part of my 
early years in France and England. I suppose it is up to you what argument 
you make from my background but at the beginning of a new century, it would 
be at least encouraging to hear discussions divorced from the race and 
nationality of their parties.

Hopefully

Stuart Phillips

(Grandfather, Frederick- Friedrich- Fischer- Steiner)

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Rod Fleming [SMTP:rodfleming@sol.co.uk]
Sent:	Friday, December 31, 1999 4:58 AM
To:	stuart.phillips@umb.edu
Subject:	LUG Education

HI

I must respond to your inaccurate, misinformed, and misleading post to the
LUG. There is specific provision for a separate Scottish education system,
cast in stone in the Act of Union of 1707. There is NO "British Education
System". This is not mere semantics but cold hard fact.

You wrote

>3. British schools teach religion, in the past Church of England, more
recently a broader range.

Church of England has NEVER, EVER been taught in Scottish schools. The
Church of England has no presence in Scotland at all. This is because of
another exception in the Act of Union.

The notion that Thatcher changed Scottish education to bring it into line
with England is just plain old wrong, and I suspect reflects your own
political prejudice.

You wrote

>especially since the Thatcher
>years when Scotland lost much of its local government).

Fact: Unitary councils- which is when Scotland lost the redundant tier of
Regional Councils- arrived in 1996- seven (count them, seven) years after
Mrs Thatcher left office.

Fact:  In 1999 Scotland got a Parliament of its own- and one of its most
important areas of responsibilty is-- hey, you guessed it, education. Under
exactly which stone have you been sleeping?

You wrote

>Last but not least, life, even politics, is rarely talked about in
>constitutional terms in Britain, unlike the US


Obviously you have not been in Scotland for the last two years, then.

Really the attitude that you display is a clear illustration of the
ignorance of many both in England and Scotland about the Scottish
constitutional position. I am a Unionist, and a Scot, and I resent the way
that this ignorance plays into the hands of the separatist Scottish
Nationalist movement. Many English people (and either you are one, despite
your name, or you are a very, very misinformed Scot) just assume that
Scotland is the same as England. It isn't. I have lived and worked in both
countries, as well as in other European countries, and Scotland and England
are about as alike as England and France, leaving aside the different
languages.

The UK really is a Union of separate countries. When the English realise
that, and start behaving with better manners towards Scotland in 
recognising
and tolerating these differences, there will be some long-term hope for the
Union. As long as they display the arrogance and ignorance which you do, I
very much doubt if the Union will survive.

And BTW I am not in the slightest racist- My wife is from Surrey; she would
agree with all of the above.


Rod