RE: [Leica] anti-Leica-ism?

["Art Peterson" <peterson_art@hotmail.com>]

Peter,

If you say your intention was "not [to] compare Erwin's posts to 'HOw I 
stroked my lens,'" then I certainly believe you.  But I HAVE re-read your 
post, both now and before I responded previously, and I think you ought to 
be aware that when you address a message to Erwin and start off by saying 
you "find [his] comments condescending" and conclude by saying, "Hey Erwin, 
lighten up.  We all have opinions, right, wrong or indifferent.  I for one 
prefer a bit of humor and controversy when compared to a thread on 'How I 
stroked my lens last night,'" it really does at least SEEM as if you were 
making just such a comparison.

But, again, as you say that was not how you intended your message, I am glad 
to hear that, and I retract my comment regarding its personal offensiveness. 
  I suppose that from time to time we all send out quick e-mails that could 
have done with a bit more proofreading or editorial consideration.  :)

Art Peterson


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter)" <peterk@lucent.com>
Reply-To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
To: "'leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us'"    
<leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Subject: RE: [Leica] anti-Leica-ism?
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:14:13 -0700

Hey Art,

I did not compare Erwin's posts to "HOw I stroked my lens."  Please re-read
my post! It was a preference of having threads such as the AF thread, or the
like to the typical mundane I Love My Leica thread, or what's your favorite
Leica nonsense we see all too much!

Peter K

- -----Original Message-----
From: Art Peterson [mailto:peterson_art@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 10:00 AM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] anti-Leica-ism?



Well, DonJ, I would say the opposite of "Right on!," whatever that is
("Right off?").  If you, like PeterK, would "prefer a bit of humor and
controversy," I'd agree most people can enjoy humor; but why should anyone
"prefer...controversy," per se?  And to compare Erwin's posts to "a thread
on 'How I stroked my lens last night'" is not only absurd (as Erwin's posts,

by and large, are the most clearly thought out and broadly informative on
the LUG), but, what's more, grossly offensive.

It's one thing to say what you want to say and quite another to go out of
your way to be gratuitously offensive, or to endorse offensiveness, even in
the interest of creating "controversy."

Art Peterson


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Reply-To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] anti-Leica-ism?
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:59:38 EDT

In a message dated 5/10/99 10:15:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
peterk@lucent.com writes:

<< Erwin,

   I find your comments condescending. When I first started on this list I
   found the small fragment of the group to be in control of the LUG.  It 
was

a
   religion to this so-called "gang of 5" and anything to the contrary was
   blasphemy.  Leica cameras were canonized during this time and I think we
now
   have a wide ranging group with opinions.  To use an insolent tone and
state
   "This list might evolve into a mature and resourceful body of Leica info
   (as I once hoped it would automatically grow to this stature)," only 
shows
   we have obviously have hit your hot button.  Hey Erwin, lighten up.  We
all
   have opinions, right, wrong or indifferent.  I for one prefer a bit of
humor
   and controversy when compared to a thread on "How I stroked my lens last
   night."

   Peter K >>


    Right on!  It is amusing to observe how some wish to stifle the thoughts
and speech of others, not with facts, figures, and well thought out
arguments, but with characterizations that have nothing to do with Leica
equipment.  When one posts a message pointing out problems with Leica
products so Leica owners may be alerted to these potential problems, rather
than responding with facts and figures in an effort to refute the post,
these
"cheerleaders" launch a personnel attack on the person making a statement or
asking the embarrassing question.

The post today regarding the problems Leica is having with the manufacture
of
the 90 mm APO-ASPH lenses is enlightening if for no other reason than it
advises those waiting for delivery there is a problem that may further delay
delivery.  It was also informative in that the post seemed to clear up the
question where the 90 mm APO-ASPH lenses are made as it said some were
subcontracted to a firm in Canada and now production has been transferred to
Germany.  If this is so, does anyone know whether the 90 mm APO-ASPH lenses
are being made by Leica in Germany or just subcontracted out to a
manufacturing facility in Germany.  These are all interesting bits of
information for the collector as well as other Leica owners and users.

I hope those who wish to liven the conversation with any comments regarding
the "Leica" subject will not be intimidated by these self-annointed-would-be
censors because these "censors" have not provided any clarification.

I believer there are many of us who enjoy reading the subjective comments
regarding Leica lenses that Mr. Puts publishes.  It would be interesting if
Mr. Puts test reports were based on instrument readouts along with his
subjective analysis since different people see colors and contrast
differently.  If something may be reduced to numbers for comparison, then
everyone may judge for themselves.  From the posts regarding Mr. Puts, one
would be led to think Mr. Puts does have the instrumentation necessary to
make objective measurements. If that is a fact, maybe the measurements could
be shared so the reader would not have to rely upon subjective judgments.

Keep us the good work, Peter K. and do not let the "group of five" get you
off the track.  I will be watching for your posts.



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com