Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1999/03/13
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Well folks, I dropped my Xpan waist level height (not intentional)... the rangefinder went out of wack.. My puppy knocked a IIIa of a table.. no problem with the alignment Ting - -----Original Message----- From: Walter S Delesandri <walt@jove.acs.unt.edu> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Leica] existential pleasures of engineering (2) >Has the "law of diminishing returns" no applicability to this >group? Is the economic status of this group (as I've noted >before) so far into the stratosphere that economic issues are >not a factor?.....(for those of you familiar with the allusion, >are we all Harry Pearsons of "the Absolute Sound"?) > >Certainly, if one buys a new lens, and the difference between >the immediately previous model and the current "APO" or whatever >is 10-20%, one should opt for the new one....but in a real-world >example, should I sell my 1970 EXC 50 Summicron for $300 and >buy a new one for $1000? or sell my 35 Summicron for $500 and >buy the "APO" for three times that? I think a dose of reality >is in order. > >The top 1-2% performance gain IN ANY MANUFACTURED object costs >an additional 100% or more (sometimes MUCH more)....and will >make NO better pictures, better sound, better transportation, etc. > >Even though a person has the MONEY to do this kind of illogical >purchasing, it is truly quest for the "holy grail"...a goosechase, >etc....and is not prudent thinking....especially since most people >have trouble with the bodies, and are in no way approaching the >limits of thirty year old optics in their photography. Lets >request reliable, well adjusted RFDR bodies that stay that way, >leave the lenses where they are until the rest of the system >catches up. > >Cheers, >Walt > >On Sat, >13 >Mar 1999, Erwin Puts wrote: > >> Recently a Lugger got many messages as he noted that some older generation >> lens showed image 'defects' that the newer one had corrected. Many persons >> tried to convince him that the older lens still had its merits and that he >> should not go for the ultimate quality. My question here is simple: why not? >> What is wrong with trying to find the best equipment available, disregarding >> for a moment the ability to exploit this new image potential. There is simply >> an existential pleasure in knowing you have the best equipment and that you >> can improve on your own abilities and your equipment will grow with you. >> In my view there is nothing wrong with selecting the best equipment money can >> buy in the 35mm world. And it is up to any buyer to define for her/himself how >> to use this equipment and enjoying the use or ownership of a product of >> precision engineering. >> The Leica M series is a remarkable adaptable instrument to many uses. >> There are Leica users who sell pictures and make a living out of this >> activity. There are Leica users who produce artistically pleasing pictures of >> great human interest. >> There are Leica users who make pictures of real life objects and try to excel >> in capturing the finest possible details with the utmost clarity. >> There are Leica users who try to combine all these approaches in one style of >> photography. (Emil Shulthess is one of these persons) >> There is not any logical argument why any of these approaches is inherently >> superior or should be designated as the best (or the only) way to use Leicas. >> Recently it has been proposed that Leica users should stop searching for the >> best in image quality as the example of HCB 'proved' that great masterpieces >> can be made with the older equipment. Again this argument is not valid. The >> value content of HCB pictures is its representation of the human condition in >> its geometrical forms. HCB never was interested in any special optical >> qualities of Leica lenses. His priorities were quite simply of a different >> order. The argument that what is good enough for HCB should be good enough for >> every Leica user, is a very thin one. Why should HCB's imagery be the norm for >> everybody? Again it boils down to the position that only a certain class of >> photographers are allowed to define what is the proper use of a Leica as they >> seem to claim to use the instrument in its proper way. This argument is >> circular of course. HCB simply used the equipment available to him at his >> time. As did Eisenstaedt. It would be a bit rash to claim that some masters of >> the Leica (artistically speaking) should be used as an example to limit the >> quest for the ultimate image quality. At least the Leica optical designers >> still think that the potential for improvements in optical quality is very >> real. >> In this same category we find the often quite forcefully stated expression >> that photographically old and new lenses perform on the same level. >> And that by implication the quest for improved image quality is futile or at >> least not necessary. Or it is said that the improvements are not worth the >> trouble. In any case we note a Luddite attitude here. Modern Leica lenses have >> a generally much higher level of aberration correction than earlier versions, >> much smaller blur circles and a very different balance of residual >> aberrations, including the secondary spectrum. You can see this in every >> conceivable image characteristic. It is a bit disappointing to note that some >> observers dismiss the improvements as irrelevant for contemporary photography. >> Of course if you shoot with the high sun in your back, use apertures of 1:5,6 >> and smaller and print on small-scale color prints, the differences will be >> small. Still the knowledgeable observer will note a higher overall contrast >> and a much crisper rendition of textural detail with the new lenses. And not >> every lens shows these improvements in the same scale. As example the second >> generation of the Summicron 50mm (from 1969) exhibits more aberrations than >> the third (current) generation. Still in practical shooting the chance that >> you will note these 'image defects' is small. But if you happen to take >> pictures of objects with many very fine obliquely oriented textural details >> and high flare conditions, you will see the difference. And that is the point >> of current improvements: get optimum results whatever the level of subject >> detail or flare or contrast. >> Sometimes these differences will only become visible under controlled and >> comparative test sessions. And this brings us to the next story. Lens testing >> should not be representative of the demands of real life photographers in real >> life photo shooting sessions. I am not sure where this myth comes from as the >> supporters of this myth never explain what exactly they mean. It seems to be >> that the traditional test pattern (two dimensional and black-white bar line >> patterns as used by the USAF charts) is the scapegoat. Now no serious tester >> will base his conclusions on such a test pattern unless suitably educated into >> its interpretation. Used as a rough form of MTF related information it still >> has merits. Used as a simple resolution chart it is not of great use. That you >> may not interpolate from a two dimensional test pattern to a three dimensional >> reality is refuted by all optical handbooks and all optical design programs. >> > >