Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1998/12/01

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Come on guys
From: Jim Hurtubise <>
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:52:37 +0000

Oddmund, you were very kind in your reply to Mr. Whalen. I can not be so kind.
Censorship on the Leica USERS Group (that is what LUG stands for) has been
discussed many times, and I believe the consensus has been that anything remotely
Leica related is fair game. Everyone has the right to use their delete key not
the right to dictate the discussion. I don't recall hearing Mr. Whalen protest
about the high end audio thread, or the I drive this kind of SUV thread. Were
these somehow more acceptable non-topics to you? Sadly we have created a society
where individuals feel the world revolves around them and when it comes to
subjects outside of their immediate world, they prefer to bury their head in the
sand. They have everything and care about nothing. For you maybe photography is
nothing but a hobby and pastime, but there are many photojournalists and others
on this list who want to make photographs that have meaning and the power to move
others emotionally. To do this you have to care about something other than your
own personal gratification. Referring to someone's else's personal views as "bs"
is well, bs.  We have a great variety of users on this list and I enjoy reading
about how they use their Leicas, why they use them and what they use them for. If
their political views help shape the type of images they make, well I want to
hear about that too. I feel very strongly that no one here should be trying to
limit the discussions to pre-ordained or majority approved topics and telling
others to take their discussion elsewhere. And as also posted previously, the LUG
is more than just a discussion group. So stop the complaining about

Jim Hurtubise

At 06:56 01/12/1998 -0500, Gary D. Whalen wrote:
>  Come on guys.  This is not a political forum nor is it a managment
>forum.  This is the "Leica Photography" forum.  Can we please somehow
>resist the temptation of posting to the world our political, management
>and financial views of Leica.  Unless I am wrong we do photography to
>get away from that bs so I don't want to read about it here.  Maybe you
>could personally e-mail each other with your views and save the rest of
>us from these "non-topics".

Oddmund replied:
In my case you are wrong. In the case of photographers who made Leica
famous, you are wrong as well. If they did "photography to get away from
that bs", we would never have Leicas today, or just some prototypes in
museums. Leica is a part of contemporary history, having witnessed, and
still witnessing, showing the diversity of life, human situations, suffering,
dignity, sorry and happiness, smile and tears. This is "politics", and this
will always be "politics". Politics and economy, and moral if you want.
There is nothing wrong about it, as there is nothing wrong about this being
discussed in the Leica Users Group.