Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1998/06/19

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Francesco & Danny / NOW BLACKMAIL
From: Paul and Paula Butzi <butzi@halcyon.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:01:44 -0700

It would appear that the already rapid spiral descent will simply 
continue, with more and more unsubstantiated accusations 
and more and more extreme measures advocated, unless 
I explain the situation as I see it.  I know this is long, but
I'd ask that people indulge me and read it to the end.

Several days ago, Alf Breull posted the following:
>Francesco, don't forget the internet possibilities. 
>
>Your sites are listed as porn even in pretty free countries (Sjonnie) and
>linked between adult pages, which speak of "teen bitches" who etc.
>(sexysites) - besides the copyright violations and a lot of other
>information (4000+ hits) about you and your past and current correspondence.

>
>It's the context of which I'm speaking. 

Since I was interested in the idea of a LUG web page, 
I followed up on Alf's suggestion, fired up the usual internet
search tools, and searched the internet for stuff on Francesco 
and Five Senses.  Anyone who cares to can do the same 
search themselves.

In the interest of getting a balanced view, I also fired up 
the usual tools, searching for Alf Breull.  Along 
with the expected references to his web page, assorted 
camera related things, and other miscellany, I found one 
item that I found peculiar, especially when set against
his (in my view) vitriolic denouncement of Francesco as 
a pornographer. Using this one item, I found a 
considerable quantity of stuff which seemed very 
inconsistent with what Alf was saying publicly on this list.
There was no subterfuge; I was simply performing the 
same process with Alf as I had applied with Francesco.  
Again, anyone who cares to do so can do exactly what 
I did using the usual internet search tools.

Now, it's possible that this one item was some sort of error.  
In my view, the discussion on this list had already 
degenerated past simple name calling, mud slinging, 
and character assassination.  So,rather than making 
the matter public, I forwarded it to Alf, via private mail, 
along with a request for some sort of explanation from
him.  Since my previous exchanges with Alf had generated 
considerably more heat than light, and because I strongly 
expected that the response from Alf would be either silence 
or rudeness, I suggested that if he did not care to 
discuss it privately with me, or if his response was rude, 
I would take that  as tacit acceptance that the item  in 
question was written by him, and would  simply forward 
it to this mailing list and let it get sorted out in public.
Since Alf has no compunctions about discussing
the moral values of others in this forum, it would
seem only fair to allow his to be discussed likewise.

I am sure there are subscribers to the list who feel what 
I've done was blackmail. I am uninterested in this point.  
In my view, if someone wants to publicly attack the 
morals of another, then it seems reasonable to apply 
the same standards to them as they apply to the 
person they attack.  The item I forwarded to Alf
is completely public.  In any case, neither Francesco
nor Danny was aware of, let alone involved in any of
this.  I would say that those people who accused them
unjustly should be busy typing up apologies, particularly
those who accused them of mudslinging.

It certainly was not my intent to force Alf from the list, 
and I sincerely hope that he reconsiders his action.  
It would appear that Alf and I disagree strongly
on many things, but I think that he's a valuable 
contributor to discussions of things Leica.

In the interests of getting the mailing list back to
productive discussion, I'd suggest that if people
want to discuss this, they do so off list.  In any
case I'll be unsubscribing (for reasons unrelated
to this fracas), so if you want to discuss it with 
me, you'll *have* to do it privately.