Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1996/02/13

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To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: context is important...
From: blair@convivia.com (Blair Nonnecke)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1996 19:40:53 -0500
Cc: Leonard Caplan <72254.3576@compuserve.com>

Without the context of the original posting, I was curious about what
Leonard Caplan had to say. Here is my request for further information and
his reply. This is a great example of how meaning can be lost or implied
when messages are used outside of the original thread.

Cheers, Blair

-----------fwd------------

<Blair;

<I just found this cross-posted in another list and attributed to you. I was
<wondering whether it is accurate and if so, whether it represents your
<personal or professional opinion. Thanks for your attention in this matter.

<Cheers, Blair

-----------enclosed letter------------

From: Leonard Caplan <72254.3576@compuserve.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Mail order houses.  Those AAA bastards!
Date: 10 Feb 1996 05:48:49 GMT
Organization: London Imports Ltd.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <4fhbk1$r0l@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <1430@blake.win.net> <4f8f73$au@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
<4fdd5c$qef@news2.aimnet.com>

>I had actually been considering a Fogg bag for a Leica I am ordering in
>March,

It would be greatly appreciated if you don't.

1)I would not want to have to deal with you in the event of a problem.

2)Most buyers of the bag have class and style...neither of these traits
seem to be your strong suit.

3)I would not want any of my Dealers having to deal with you.

4)The bags are not price competitive anyway, so there is no way that you
would be interested.

5)You probably would not be attracted to them anyway since they are
elegant and understated.


PS-Please do not buy Jim's books either <s>.>>


I am not sure what you mean by " whether it represents your
personal or professional opinion. "

The unfortunate scenario concerning this thread started with Adam blasting B&H,
who bye the way is _not_one of my dealers, for supposedly sending Grey goods
when he expected USA.  The initial tone of the message was abusive and IMHO and
in the opinion of others who read the post way over the line.  Although B&H is
not one of my favorites because of heavy discounts, and not a dealer of mine by
choice, I do know for a fact that they are totally reputable, and go out of the
way to keep it that way.  Henry Posner is constantly on line giving help and
working out wrinkles.

After reading the initial post I wrote a reply expressing my feeling about B&H,
and strongly objecting to the tone and language used, as well as the Title of
the thread "AAA those bastards", which wasn't started by Adam, as well as words
such as "Sucks", etc. which I do not feel belongs on a public forum.

Words went back and forth between Adam and myself as well as others. Following
is a short excerpt  from the exchange.


HENRY POSNER FROM B&H RESPONDED TO THE ALLEGATIONS FROM ADAM:

>
This is simply not logical.  Whether a customer purchases one item or the other,
our profit margin is unaffected.  If you buy the grey item we paid 500 for and
sold to you for 515, or the USA item we paid 540 for and sold to you for 555 --
there's no difference to us.

B+H has very few gray market items -- >We have both -- WHY?

1) Sometimes grey is less expensive to the customer who's watching a
budget

2) Sometimes the features differ slightly -- the EOS 5 vs EOS A2E for one

3) Sometimes the USA distributor runs out of an item & grey's the only way
it's available

Again, this is debatable - I have heard numerous examples of B&H sending
people gray market equipment when they asked for stuff with blank, USA
warranty cards - myself included...

One unfortunate unsubstantiated incident certainly cannot be extrapolated
to indicate a malicious habit.

-----------------------------------------------
>Henry Posner / B&H Photo-Video
>70550.1616@compuserve.com

ADAM REPLIED:

Unsubstantiated? You sack of shit! What the hell is that - are you
implying that I lied? Your company is the miscreant in this scenario, not
I, the customer.

I can post order numbers, serial numbers and dates if you want - why you
would want to draw more attention to your companies bullshit I do not
know.

-A.

I think that you can get the drift of this whole matter.  Somewhere along the
line I received a post from Adam which stated >>I had actually been considering
a Fogg bag for a Leica I am ordering in March, you sir are the reason I will
find something esle to put that camera in.>>

not just

>>I had actually been considering a Fogg bag for a Leica I am ordering in
March, >>

That is what preceeded my quoted post.

This whole mess took on a very bad life, and there were too many words expressed
by many.

In answer to your question in the beginning....I do not want customers like
this, nor would I want to subject any of my dealers to the sort of foul mouthed
abuse that this individual dishes out.

I am aware that his message came from some sort of Leica Readers thread.  Being
new to the Net am not familiar with it and would appreciate any details that you
could provide.

You also have my full permission to post this entire E-mail message if you so
desire.

Best regards,

Len