Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/09/24

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Subject: [Leica] OT: Zeiss ZF 85/1.4 for Nikon
From: freakscene at weirdness.com (Marty Deveney)
Date: Wed Sep 24 22:28:38 2008

The short tele shoot-out

A few years ago I did an assessment, mostly informally (i.e. by shooting and 
looking at pictures) with the following lenses which I begged and borrowed 
(no stealing was required):
Pentax 85/1.4 AF
Minolta 85/1.4 AF
Nikkor 85/1.4 AF
Nikkor 85/1.4 AiS
Leica R 80/1.4
Canon FD 85/1.2 L
Canon EF 85/1.2L
Zeiss 85/1.4 for Contax
Leica M 75/1.4
Leica M 75/2 asph
Recently I got a chance to use a Zeiss ZF 85/1.4

At the time I was shooting a lot of portraits on black and white film.  I 
was perfectly willing to buy a body to dedicate to any lens that didn?t 
match the cameras I mostly use ? Nikon SLRs and Leica M rangefinders.  I 
found that all these lenses are great: they should be ? this is a focal 
length and speed where designers have a lot of flexibility and can create a 
really great lens and build it to a realistic price.  The differences I 
discuss below are subtle and at times subjective.  I tested the Nikkors on a 
range of Nikon MF bodies (FA, F3, FM2n) and some film AF (N90s, F100, F5) 
and digital (D200 and more recently D3) cameras.

My informal trial with the Cosina built Zeiss ZF showed it to be almost 
identical to the older Kyocera-built Zeiss for the Contax cameras.  The 
Zeiss is probably the most famous fast 85, but I could never figure out why. 
 Spherical aberrations were slightly over-controlled, meaning that the bokeh 
was not as good as the best lenses in this class.  If you think having good 
bokeh is not important in a fast short tele, you need to consider buying a 
slower lens: when you use it wide open, you are going to see a LOT of bokeh. 
 The Zeiss does not have a floating element or an aspherical element, so the 
close-up performance suffers visibly (this also happens with all the other 
lenses that do not have a floating element).  It is sharp across more of the 
image field wide open than either of the Leica lenses and performs very 
similarly to the Nikkor AiS.  The Nikkor focuses to 85 cm while the Zeiss 
can only focus to 1 m.  This makes a big difference for portrait work, but 
may not matter to some.  

Optically, the Canon EF 85/1.2 is probably the best of the fast SLR lenses ? 
it has an aspherical element, a floating element and two high-refractive 
glass elements, which aid performance admirably.  But Canon EOS cameras 
drive me spare.  The Leica 75/2 asph is its RF equivalent ? experience with 
Hoppy?s has made me want one.  These lenses represent the current pinnacle 
of lens design for this lens type.  Both these lenses are optimised for 
small image structures ? they render fine detail with incredible sharpness.  
I haven?t seen MTF charts for them but it wouldn?t surprise me if the 40 
lp/mm transference was very high.  The Leica M 75/1.4 and R 80/1.4 lenses 
both appear to be optimised for larger image structures and their resolution 
is slightly lower.  This might matter if you use very fine-grained film or 
digital at low ISOs and need to retain a lot of image detail, e.g. if you 
enlarge a lot.  Since I usually use medium-speed black-and-white film it 
didn?t matter to me.

The bokeh of the Leica lenses, the Canon FD and EF and the Pentax were all 
good; their character does vary but this is purely personal preference - 
none of them showed any double line or other nasty tendencies.  The Minolta 
came next, then the Nikkor AiS, which were both fairly neutral.  The AF 
Nikkor and the Zeiss were a fair way behind and showed a lot of double-line 
tendency in the behind the sharpness plane bokeh.

Colour rendition may be an issue for some.  The Leica R and M and Canon EF 
lenses were the best in this characteristic, followed by the Pentax and 
Minolta, with the others occasionally showing some differences in 
transference.

The AF Nikkor has some visible chromatic aberration created by its optical 
design and could be induced to flare a little more than the other lenses.  
The Pentax resisted flare the best but the AF was slow.  The Minolta was 
excellent, but not visibly better than the others and the AF was also slow.

Digital vs film use makes a difference.  The lenses without a floating 
element display some focus shift, which wide open and close up, you will see 
with digital more clearly than with film because the emulsion depth is 
absent and cannot provide latitude for back focus.  The Leica M 75/1.4 is 
very difficult for me to use wide open, close up on the M8, even after 
camera-lens calibration by Leica.  As received from Leica, my 75/1.4 focuses 
ever so slightly in front of the object focused on wide open, but as you 
stop down the focus shifts backwards but within the depth of field.  If you 
get your M camera and 75/1.4 adjusted so that focus is dead on at 1.4, it 
seems that it will backfocus outside the depth of field to f8.  This is most 
important for rangefinder bodies, but you sometimes see effects with SLRs 
where you focus wide open but the lens stops down to take the image.  There 
are two ways to fix this: chipped lenses can tell the camera body what the 
focus shift is at a given aperture and adjust appropriately (I don't think 
any manufacturer has implemented this, possibly because AF systems are still 
not as accurate as you might think) or optical design that minimises focus 
shift.  The latter seems popular.

AF didn't matter to me much - I can manually focus quickly enough.  If you 
like AF, that limits your options.

I ended up keeping the Nikkor AiS 85/1.4 and the Leica 75/1.4.  None of 
these lenses focus close enough for a really tight face-only portrait.  I 
got the Nikkor 105/2 DC for this.  These days I?d be tempted by the Zeiss 
100/2 Makro, descended from the really amazing Arri/Zeiss master Prime movie 
lenses and with Zeiss? newest, best coatings.

I?ll try to get some more examples online soon, but already up:
Cale ? Leica 80/1.4
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Portraits/File0585.jpg.html
Rachel ? Mixture of Nikkor 85/1.4 AiS (842,3) and Leica 80/1.4 (844,5,6)
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Rachel/
Simone ? Leica M 75/1.4
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/mate/L1002529.jpg.html

The 85 mm f1.8 and f2 SLR lenses from these manufacturers cannot be 
considered equivalent to these fast f1.4 and 1.2 lenses: their 
characteristics differ in a number of ways (they tend to be much more 
conservative designs, for starters) and they are often built to lower 
specifications, confounding optical comparisons because of sample variation. 
 Two Nikkor 85/1.8 AF lenses I have tried have been particularly mediocre.

I would be delighted if Nikon redesigned the AF 85/1.4.  Zeiss probably 
should have thought about doing the same with their fast 85, particularly 
since most of these lenses will be used on high end digital SLRs.  I also 

An even further OT observation I made during this was that the Canon New F1 
camera is great: somewhere between there and the EOS 3 they seriously lost 
me.

Marty


Gallery:
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene


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Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] OT: Zeiss ZF 85/1.4 for Nikon)