[Leica] Kvetchmongering?

[jshul at comcast.net (Jim Shulman)]

Dante,

I think you have the right answer: the ability to stop a small problem from
becoming a major product impediment rests with the manufacturer's
responsiveness.  The best way to fight web gossip is to prove that the
problem has been fixed, and that flawed examples will be retrofitted free of
charge.

That said, I agree with others that IR filters are a sleazy solution to an
engineering flaw.  After all, supposedly our Leica lenses give optimal
results sans filters--or at least that's what I heard during the film era.

Poor planning and execution isn't just limited to Solms.  The other day (at
the Leica Day) most folks who came to the store before 2PM had a chance to
see and hold the M8, but not shoot with it.  The reason?  They forgot to
charge the batteries for the demonstrations!

Jim Shulman
Bryn Mawr, PA





-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Dante
Stella
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 4:46 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] Kvetchmongering? 

Jim:

The phenomenon is that one person (or a small number of people) has a  
problem under a limited set of circumstances and complains.  This  
gets posted to a mailing list, which get picked up by Google  
searches.  Then people, doing this "research," get on places like  
DPreview and complain about something they never experienced.   
Eventually, the conventional wisdom becomes that the product is no  
good, that it always has the problem for every picture, and that no  
one should buy it.  This leads to low sales volume and voila!

On the other hand, Leica's "we're never wrong" mentality is not much  
better.  Are they offering filters because replacement sensors cost  
so much?  Did someone at Leica mis-specify how much IR he thought was  
acceptable?

They should have had Kodak do their firmware and in-camera software.   
But that's water under the bridge.

Dante

On Nov 24, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Jim Shulman wrote:

> Kvetchmongering, or
> If we complain too much, Leica will take away our new toys and go  
> home.
>
> Oh, I see: Create a product for one of the most demanding, finicky  
> groups of
> photographers (and enthusiasts) in the world.
> Charge a premium for the product.
> Release the product several years after a similar product has been  
> in the
> market--and well behind the SLR rivals.
> Enter the market with a less-than-stellar reputation for camera  
> electronics
> reliability.  Remember the R8, and the LUG stories about the repair  
> trips
> back to Solms?
> Gin up the fanfare, with lots of (deserved) rave reviews.
> Discover two significant problems (one correctable with a firmware  
> upgrade,
> requiring a trip back to Solms, the other one not electronically
> correctable) within a week or two of introduction.
>
> This isn't kvetchmongering.  It's the nature of selling an extremely
> expensive technical product, not fully de-bugged, to a group of
> technically-sophisticated consumers.  Professionals in any field  
> talk before
> they invest in equipment that is supposed to last for years.
>
> If the M8 disappears, it's because there aren't enough  
> photographers willing
> to part with five grand for its virtues (or in spite of its flaws).
>
> The proof is in the camera, not the commentary.
>
>
> Jim Shulman
> Bryn Mawr, PA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of  
> Dante
> Stella
> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:03 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica M8: "I think it's going to be all right"
>
> I get the impression that the problems with the M8 are overstated.
> People love to repeat stuff like that, no matter how seldom it occurs
> - and you can look to the Kodak SLR and the Hexar RF to see where
> that chitter-chatter leads.  So I also wouldn't be surprised if the
> M8 disappears as a result of kvetchmongering.
>