Re: [Leica] Marc Small's statement that M6 is best built M camera -LONG RESPONSE

[Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@pacbell.net>]

Seth and Marc

Gee, I thought that you two attorney types would have a unified
front.

Jerry

Seth Rosner wrote:

> Time for the defenestration of Roanoke, Virginia. Since Marc's top floor is
> not at the same elevation as the Praha window from which  national hero Jan
> Masaryk departed, one may presume a non-lethal result.
>
> P.S. (in this case, means "pre-script"!!): note well, I love my M6, my main
> everyday user. Handier than my M4 that I also love and am unretiring as I
> write (Sherry is doing a CLA on it).
>
> I write this response principally because I couldn't swallow Marc's insults
> about some good friends.
>
> From: "Marc James Small" <msmall@infionline.net>
> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 3:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Marc Small's statement that M6 is best built M camera
>
> At 09:10 AM 7/28/03 -0400, Seth Rosner wrote:
> >
> >The usual undocumented - and undocumentable - "for complex reasons." Marc
> >should produce a single Leica repair person not attached to Solms or
> >Northvale to state a single complex (or simple) reason that the build
> >quality of M6's is the best.
> >
> > I will simply say that these are probably the very people who told me the
> opposite, Seth.
>
> .............in your imagination, marc. You're wrong about the M6, Marc.
>
> > I suspect that they were telling you what you wanted to
> hear, as all small merchants must do.
>
> ........of all of the arrogant, condescending, demeaning, insulting remarks
> you have made on this site, this one, marc, is the worst. It happens that
> the people of whom I was writing are THE three most highly regarded
> independent Leica service people in the United States. Everyone on the LUG,
> including you, knows who they are. I wonder how you would feel if I were to
> say to you in a public forum - which I am not doing and do not intend to
> suggest - you, mr. small, are a penny-ante, small-time lawyer?
>
> In fact, each of the three is absolutely straight, will never say what
> he/she does not believe, to the point on occasion of brusqueness. You know
> the three of whom I spoke (I also know from them that you have used the
> services of at least two of them in the past) and since your message, I have
> asked each of them whether they have spoken to you on the issue of
> comparative M-camera quality and not one has. Thus you were not speaking the
> truth. Or, if there were three others who"told you the opposite" I challenge
> you to disclose their names here, where you have demeaned my friends, so
> that I may speak directly with them to confirm what you say they have told
> you. In short, I do not believe you. You're wrong about the M6, Marc.
>
> >Why not call them back and discuss the changes in engineering approaches
> between 1937, when the M3 began life,
>
> ..........it was 1954, Marc.
>
> > and 1975, when the M4-2 was designed.
>  Specifically, ask them about the longevity impact of that changeover from
> adjustable to go/no-go components.  Don't just ask, "WHAT" is better;  seek
> their referent, and ask "WHY is it better?"
>
> ..........more rubbish that you constantly interject to deflect from being
> caught with your pants down on YOUR issue: is the build quality of the M6
> the best? You're wrong about the M6, Marc.
>
> >One primary example of change was the shift from bronze gears in the M2
> through M4 and the steel gears used since the M4-2.
>
> ......how brilliantly well-informed you are, marc. Never was bronze used. It
> is too soft. The gear trains of Leicas were always brass until the M4-2 and
> M4-P. Last Monday, 28 July, Ernst Hartmann, head of the service department
> of Leica Northvale, told me that the reason Leitz went from brass to steel
> in the M4-2 and M4-P was because the force applied by the motor winders
> Leitz made for those cameras was sufficiently strong that Leitz was
> concerned that the brass gear trains MIGHT show, according to Leitz
> standards, unacceptable levels of wear. In the event, Ernst also said that
> instances of brass gears failing on ANY earlier M Leica were extremely rare,
> including the first Leica MP, an M3 built for motor winder. You're wrong
> about the M6, Marc.
>
> >Bronze gears lap into
> themselves fairly readily, and thus we have the buttery smooth advance of
> an M3.  Steel gears take millions of advances to do the same.
>
> ......whereas brass (NOT BRONZE) gears will only take half-a-million, right?
>
> >But the
> bronze (sic) gear will be worn out by the time the steel gear is just
> getting
> lapped into smoothness,
>
> ............bronze might not last a thousand advances. But millions of
> advances? 10 rolls a day (every day) x 36 exposures x 365 days/year (every
> year) x 40 years = 5,256,000 advances. You'll be gone by then. So will we
> all. Except the old f*rt, Ted.
>
> >The change in engineering methods is easily documented by anyone who cares
> to examine the maintenance schedule for a 1953 automobile and for a 2003
> automobile and who can then compare the AAA rates on highway break-downs:
> in olden days, breakdowns were frequent and so was maintenance.  Today,
> maintenance has been reduced and breakdowns as well.
>
> ............more diversionary rubbish. But I am still driving a 1967 - 36
> year-old - Ferrari made like they did in "olden" days, mostly by hand, with
> nary a break-down in the 25 years I have owned it, including some hard
> driving on race tracks like Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. But not to divert,
> back to the subject: you're wrong about the M6, Marc
>
> >  The same works for
> mechanical cameras.  (Seth, if you are REALLY interested, I can pass on
> some Industrial College of the Armed Forces materials on MTBF methodology
> for your review.)
>
> .........please send this to me by ordinary mail. You're wrong about the M6,
> Marc.
>
> >Those interested in this are encouraged to check the archives, as this
> topic has been discussed to death.
>
> ...........sic semper tyrannis!
>
> >I will probably have no more to
> contribute on this thread,
>
> ...........Gott sei danke!
>
> >as I've had my say multiple times over during
> the past ten years.
>
> ............ad nauseam. See my remarks above about the M6.
>
> Marc, when will you learn that you don't need to flaunt your brilliance to
> earn respect? We know you are well-informed about certain things. You don't
> have to be well-informed about everything. So when you shoot your mouth,
> oops, your computer off about anything that comes into your mind, citing
> imaginary experts and fake sources and demeaning and belittling others in an
> effort to make yourself bigger, it only demeans, belittles and discredits
> you.
>
> I was only joking about defenestration.
>
> Love and kisses to all, including Marc.
>
> Seth                 LaK 9
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html

- --
To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html