RE: RE: [Leica] Cropping dilema

["bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>]

I'm not trying to argue with you at all Feli, only offering you my
responses to your questions.
I was not in any way implying that because you don't make a living as a
photojournalist you don't, shouldn't, wouldn't want to stick to the
truth - I was simply pointing out that if the image is for
non-journalism use, the standards are different. If you, as a creative
artist, want to use Photoshop to, in effect, sandwich two negatives to
make a statement with an image, that's your decision - go for it. If, on
the other hand, you want to stick to strict PJ standards, go for that.

As to the tilting - I've said I have a problem with that. I don't have a
problem with cropping, as long as the cropping doesn't change the
"truth" of the image. I'm sure there are those on the list who would not
have a problem with the tilting, who might say 'well, wouldn't it be
okay if he had tilted the camera? What's the dif?' And yes, tilting the
camera is now a pretty common PJ trick. While I have done it once or
twice, I'm inclined to think that what results from a tilted camera is
an image that suggests the photographer was drunk or stumbling, but
that's just me. ;-) But I see tilting the image in Photoshop, IF you are
going for truth, as beyond what is acceptable.

And to then use PS to paint in sky and sidewalk is to further engage in
deception, trying to fool your viewer into thinking that you tipped the
camera.

But again, this is something you're doing to please yourself - not meet
the standards of an editor, publication, or profession. So if you will
only be satisfied with the "truth" as you shot it, then you know what
the answers to your questions require - and that is no manipulation
beyond the usual burning and dodging and standard tonal adjustments.

At least that's how I see it.

Best

B. D.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of
feli2@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:44 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Cc: feli@d2.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Leica] Cropping dilema



From: bdcolen <bdcolen@earthlink.net>

> There are a couple questions, and issues here, Feli -
>First, what is this for? Is this just for your own use?

Since I am not a photojournalist and I don't do this for a living, I
suppose it's for me. But just because I don't make a living at this,
does it mean that I don't want to stick to the truth.


>If it is, do whatever you want? Is it for some journalism usage?


>If it is, the first problem I have is with using Photoshop to >create a

>12 degree tilt "to increase the dynamic of the shot." >If it wasn't 
>dynamic, it wasn't dynamic. End of story. End of >shot.

Would you also object to rotating the shot on an enlarger and cropping
it? The shot of the napalm girl that was discussed last week was heavily
cropped. If he had also tilted it, would that be considered
objectionable? If the crop/tilt would have NOT changed the content of
the shot or the journalistic integrity of the recorded event, would that
still be a bad thing?


>As to inserting sky and pavement where they don't exist - I'm a >purist

>on this one: If it's for you, insert Bozo The Clown if >you want to.

I'm not talking about swapping the entire sky, adding people or
modifying the action, message or content of the event. I cropped and
rotated and ended up with two small black corners that make up maybe
5-10% of the image area that I am considering to either burn black, so
it matches the sky or the floor or even contemplated to clone a small
piece of pavement into. But like you I'm a bit of a purist and I'm
having second thought about the whole thing.


>But if it's for any purpose in which you are presenting the >photo as 
>an accurate representation of what you saw, some form >of journalism - 
>then no screwing around.

I fully 100% agree that for journalistic purposes the content of a shot
should never be manipulated in any way to change the facts of the event
that occured. But is cropping/tilting acceptable if it doesn't alter the
jounalistic integrity of the recorded event? 

I'm having an internal debate regarding the tilt. I should have tilted
the camera when I made the shot, but I didn't. If I tilt the paper in
the enlarger and push in, is that "cheating" things to make it a better
shot than I managed to grab? I still think I grabbed the correct moment
of the action.

thanks,

feli
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