Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/05/30

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica] Re: Slightly OT: C-41 b&w films
From: "Gerry Walden" <gwpics@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:44:11 +0100
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030529203926.00a10360@pop.2alpha.net>

Interesting that you go back to silver for higher speed films. I have 
gone totally C41 and although I shoot 400CN for 400iso I now use colour 
C41 if I want higher speed and convert greyscale with no problems. I 
would use colour for everything, and then convert, but for some unknown 
reason I just can't get my head around having colour in the camera and 
'seeing' in b&w - for the higher speeds I just have to!

Gerry

Peter Klein wrote:

 > To add my two cents to what others have said:
 >
 > I tried XP2, didn't like it.  Grainy.  Muddy shadows and high contrast at
 > 400. In fact, doesn't seem to really be a 400 film.  Haven't used it
 > since.
 >
 > I love T400CN.  Here's what I love most about it:
 >
 > - Almost grainless.  ISO 100 quality in an ISO 400 film.
 >
 > - Scans beautifully, even at 2700 dpi.  ISO 400 silver film has grain
 > aliasing problems at 2700 dpi, it's smoother at 4000 dpi.
 >
 > - A great tonal range.  You can capture the whole range in a "flat" scan
 > and then tweak the curve to get really fine, smoothly-graded inkjet
 > prints.
 >
 > - Doesn't block up highlights with moderate overexposure.
 >
 > - You can shoot it outdoors at ISO 200 or 250 and get detail in
 > everything
 > from the not-quite blackest shadows to bright highlights.
 >
 > - Infrared dust and scratch removal (ICE, FARE) works with it, unlike
 > silver film.
 >
 > - I don't have to develop it myself, just take it to any reliable C41
 > lab.  They run off 4x6 prints instead of squinty contact sheets.
 >
 > Here's what I *don't* like about T400CN:
 >
 > - It isn't the world's best available light film.  When you have deep
 > shadows, you need to shoot it at 200 to have a prayer of getting shadow
 > detail, otherwise they are grainy mud.  Or to put it another way, you
 > will
 > get detail several stops above your exposure, but anything more than one
 > stop under is going to look lousy.  Tri-X is much better here.
 >
 > - It's lower contrast than silver film.  On dull days, things look even
 > duller than they are, and you have to work harder in the image editor to
 > compensate.
 >
 > - If you even *look* at it harshly, it scratches.
 >
 > - Silver chauvanists have me filled with existential doubt that one day,
 > the images will just fade away.
 >
 > Here's T400CN in bright desert light, shot at ISO 250:
 > http://www2.2alpha.com/~pklein/california2003/JoshTree35.htm
 >
 > And here's one in a concert hall with so-so lighting:
 > http://www2.2alpha.com/~pklein/currentpics/quartet.htm
 >
 > In the latter picture, the original scan has more detail in the
 > background
 > wood paneling and better separation between the performer's jacket and
 > the
 > piano.  But bringing out that detail brought out speckly mud, so I
 > "printed
 > it down."
 >
 > I once tried Portra 400 and got similar results to T400CN.  The latter
 > has
 > become a universal B&W film for me.  But when I know I'm going to do
 > hard-core available darkness, it's back to silver.  Neopan 1600,
 > Neopan 400
 > or good ol' Tri-X.  With Xtol, the ISO 400 silver films are not *that*
 > grainy, especially when scanned at 4000 dpi.  Grain is just a silver
 > molecule's way of letting you know it's working hard for you.
 >
 > --Peter Klein
 > Seattle.
 >
 > --
 > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html
 >

- -- 
Gerry Walden LRPS
www.gwpics.com
+44 23 8046 3076

- --
To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html

Replies: Reply from "Phong" <phong@doan-ltd.com> (Re: [Leica] Leica] Re: Slightly OT: C-41 b&w films)
In reply to: Message from Peter Klein <pklein@2alpha.net> ([Leica] Leica] Re: Slightly OT: C-41 b&w films)