Re: [Leica] Trade off between film and lens speed

[Michael Gerard <geeman1066@earthlink.net>]

Ted,
    Thanks for such a thoughtful and thought-provoking response.  I've strayed
a bit from the LUG of late--falling behind in viewing and posting--and it is
interchanges like this one, as well as the fantastic pictures that are posted
here, that'll get me back up to speed.  Though I am still taking shots...just
having a hard time finding time to scan and post.
    I do shoot at even slower shutter speeds than 1/30 handheld, but generally
figure that I'm rolling the dice.  I took a shot one morning at 1/8 because
there were some neat light patterns created by the blinds in my bedroom, and my
daughter was standing in them.  I got some blur, but saved the shot because it
is contains such interesting light.
    I will have to try more wide open shots.  I generally shoot wide open when
I want to isolate something, relying on the bokeh to eliminate background
distractions.  I may just try to shoot a roll in tough light using my lens wide
open.  You are right--the worst thing that can happen is that I waste some
shots.  One of the nice things about coming to photography later on in life is
that I realized, right from the beginning, that learning how to do it was going
to be the really fun part.  I didn't put pressure on myself to take great
pictures right from the beginning.  It's more fun having low expectations of
yourself, and figuring that you'll learn from all of the failures. In fact, my
successes teach me far less than do my failures.
Regards,
Michael Gerard
geeman1066@earthlink.net

Ted Grant wrote:

> Michael Gerard wrote:
> >> I try to shoot at 1/60 or above, though I'll go down to
> > 1/30--but that's pushing it. <<<
>
> Hi Michael,
> The important part is... at least you try and make it work. Some folks just
> wave off any shooting slower than 1/125, they can't get sharp frames and
> that's true at times and conditions. However, if they never try or work to
> improve their camera handling or learning how to steady their body or
> elbows, they'll always shoot unsharp pictures. Or worse loose beautiful and
> endearing moments of life in the family or of friends.
>
> For me it's always important to try! If we don't try how do we ever learn we
> can do?
>
> The worst that will happen while trying are a few lost frames. But trying is
> far more important than not trying at all. I bet with a little practice
> you'd find hand holding for those quiet intimate moments of your daughter
> when she's engrossed in something and not moving and the light level is low,
> you could shoot at 1/15th. :-)   And wide open. ;-) Give it a try sometime
> you might be pleasantly surprised. ;-)
>
> >>Since I've been shooting small groups more than individual shots, I
> > haven't wanted to shoot wide open--I don't have enough depth of field to
> get
> > more than one face in reasonable focus in candid shots.  So I stop down
> the
> > lens a few stops--usually around f/5.6.  That means using faster film.  I
> > love Fuji Neopan 1600 for indoor or twilight work--I shoot at 1200, and
> have
> > liked the results.  <<<<
>
> I've become quite taken with Neopan and XTOL  @ 1:3 while shooting the
> medical women project under varying low light levels. We're getting
> beautiful 11X14 prints and the grain is meaningless.
>
> In your comment
> >>I've been shooting small groups more than individual shots, I
> > haven't wanted to shoot wide open--I don't have enough depth of field to
> get
> > more than one face in reasonable focus in candid shots.  So I stop down
> the
> > lens a few stops--usually around f/5.6.<<<
>
> That's common sense use of film and camera operation as the "assignment"
> dictates a reasonable depth of field to cover the faces and bodies in the
> group. And quite frankly under similar conditions of subject I'd work
> exactly the same.
>
> Regardless of what we say on the LUG about how we shoot, it still comes down
> to the assignment dictates what can and can't be done for a successful
> shoot. I mean it's all well and good for some of us to come on and say
> "shooting wide open etc etc." is the cat's meow for great results. However,
> as you pointed out, one wouldn't do that shooting a group of folks. It might
> be dangerous to ones health if the pictures didn't turn out. ;-)
>
> Many of the comments we see have to be tempered with a grain of salt and the
> beauty of common sense in how we shoot anything. And what works for one or
> two may not work at all for a half dozen. Applying what we learn, and in my
> case in the past half dozen? years of being on the LUG I've learned a ton of
> stuff. But anything I've read and thought was interesting as an improvement,
> I've tried.
>
> As far as buying used, nothing wrong with that anytime, as quite often
> that's where the bargains are. And I think why pros buy new in many cases is
> because when we know there's a lens we need for a successful shoot, we can't
> wait for a used bargain to come along. Therefore we go new.
>
> But then we are making our living with these tools and "good tools" can make
> for a better shoot. I.E.: the M7 for example. ;-)
>
> ted
>
> > Peter,
> >     I really enjoy the interesting questions you raise.  With my limited
> > experience, I can't hope to raise all of the intriguing questions that
> many
> > fellow LUGgers can, but here's what I generally do.
> >     Like you, I can't afford any of the really fast lenses, and I buy
> used.
> > That said, my friends with cameras think all of my lenses are fast,
> including
> > my Elmarit.  I try to shoot at 1/60 or above, though I'll go down to
> > 1/30--but that's pushing it.  However, since I received so much good
> advice
> > on the LUG regarding camera shake and improved my technique, I've found
> that
> > my hands are reasonably steady, and if my daughter isn't terribly revved,
> I
> > can shoot at 1/30.
>
> Doesn't seem too grainy to me, but I don't do a lot of
> > enlargements.
> >     Just my .02.  I'd love to hear what others think.  Your conversation
> with
> > Ted really piqued my interest.
> > Regards,
> > Michael Gerard
> > geeman1066@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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>
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