Re: [Leica] ELEKTRONIX

[Henry Ambrose <henryambrose@home.com>]

John Brownlow wrote:

>Robert Frank shot his eyeball-burning photographs as Robert Frank. He
>wandered the country and shot what fixated him. Who are we to second guess
>him? It was his view of the country. I bet the fact that he was a Swiss Jew
>had a lot to do with him experiencing it differently to H Ambrose or anyone
>else resident in Tennnessee (no putdown intended at all, Henry). My first
>exeperiences of the US were radically re-orienting and still I have problems
>with the notion of Manifest Destiny which I dare not express even in liberal
>US society for fear of upsetting mine hosts.
You're welcome to think whatever you like about M.D. What does M.D. have 
to do with photography? Do you think that I see the American west as a 
Marlboro ad?
Do you think I believe us all to be John Wayne/Davy Crockett/Daniel Boone?

Sure Frank shot what fixated him. 
Its the fixation to which Dave referred to start this battle.
Its a mildly misanthropic fixation. And that is fascinating to lots of 
folk.
>
>But in the end all that matters is that R Frank bagged the Guggenheim and
>hired the car and shot the damn pictures. I remain convinced that the only
>really valid criticism of photography is other pictures. Does Eve Arnold's
>'In America' answer Frank? Hardly. Which does not mean that a passionate
>advocate could or should not put another point of view. But you have to go
>and shoot the pictures and then we will be all ears (eyes?). 
But YOU can be so authoritative without the requirement of "shooting the 
pictures"?
(not a comment on your work, which as you know, I admire)
I'm pretty sure we don't have to have a huge body of work to be able to 
comment. Critics rarely do. ; >)
>Ditto Avedon. I love "In the American West" very much. Others see fashion
>photographs, I now realise, but that is a brutal way to categorise a very
>passionate photographer. Avedon is no fool and the pictures are deeper than
>that. But, you don't like his work? Do better. And then show it to us.
A brutal way to categorize a passionate photographer? I did not call him 
a fool.
I called his pictures "fashion photography" I did not say he was a bad 
photographer.
Jeeeshhh!!!!
>
>FWIW I find HCB"s american photographs very unsatisfactory. The nearest I
>can find to an alternative to Frank's dystopic vision is actually O Winston
>Link, or perhaps Robert Adams, or even straying from photography Hopper is
>the real answer. Personally I have recognised more Hopper in everyday
>America than almost any other artist's vision, dystopic or utopic or
>whatever. And let's not forget Disfarmer.

Wow! - Hopper - I can agree with that.
Eggleston? Yeah, that looks like home. 
(not my fav. by any means but it looks like the US)

So the first time you came to the US did you see it as somehow like 
Frank's version?
I would REALLY love to hear about this.

Daniel Bowdoin - you jump in here too. You were in at the start so come 
back.
No running away.

Henry

btw: 
dystopic is not in my dictionary. I guess you mean opposite of utopic 
(utopian)?