Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2000/08/30
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Hi Tom (The-server-is-down-with-more-time-to-read-the-LUG), I'll be happy to take the cake. And eat it too. But you missed entirely the focus (pun intended) of the thread. I was going to re-iterate the gist of the discussion, which encompasses far more than your cut and paste below, but what's the use. Having been doing what I talk about for forty years and having the results and sales to back them up, I don't feel like re-hashing what is a simple concept that a lot of folks just don't comprehend. It's not their fault. They just haven't been exposed to the type of photography that requires critical DOF. The only way to truly obtain critical focus from some point in front to some point in back is to see it. Yes, you can use tables, formulas, lens inscriptions, and numerous external methods, but you cannot substitute looking at it, at working aperture, and actually SEEING what is sharp and what is not. It is as simple as that. And you cannot say that folks cannot see it, at any aperture, because most can. It takes practice, a rubber eyecup, and patience for your eye to dilate. The basic problem is that most "photographers" want to "point and shoot." They do not want to take the extra time to produce a masterpiece They are content with producing just a piece. And maybe they are not that serious about photography anyway. When I teach workshops (for Leica USA) I cover the nuts and bolts of making a photograph. Leica R and Leica M. Most folks are interested in simply holding the camera up, pointing it toward the subject, and pushing the release. People handhold long telephotos and zooms on R cameras. During the critique, these things are self evident. People focus on what is in front of them instead of thinking, what is it in this scene that needs or should be in focus, and what needs to be or should be out of focus. They photograph as if they have an autofocus camera by not thinking of the result. And many people have an aversion to tripods. Their results show it. I usually set up a long Leica lens on a tripod and attach an R camera for people to look through and play with. If you pull the DOF preview lever while they are looking through it, the reaction is "oooo... I can't see anything." Then I ask them if they are interested in learning how to SEE DOF. Some say yes and those people get a lesson on that very thing. For some, it's a wake-up call. Others don't really care so they just walk away. Then they expound, on their favorite photography Email list, that evaluating and correcting critical DOF is impossible while stopped down. Most people interested in photography are not interested in learning the true craft of photography. They would rather have a computer programmer sitting in a cubicle in Japan, figure out their exposure and focus their camera for them. Fortunately, Leica has not yet produced an AF camera. Some learn the rules of DOF while others could care less. Yet others want to know everything and how it all works. I have photographs which I have printed to very large sizes. In inches, 48x48, 50x50, 48x60, etc. I have one 48x60 seascape that is in excruciatingly sharp focus from a foot in front of the tripod to miles away. Absolutely razor edge sharpness. This is not accomplished without actually looking at the image while stopped down and adjusting everything to achieve perfect focus. You learn how to see and work with a very dark ground glass. There is no substitute. And I take issue when someone states that "when you stop down, the GG goes dark, and no one can use it for anything useful." Which is complete and utter Bologna. Jim (please pass the cake) Brick PS. and chocolate frozen yogurt too please? PPS. There is no appreciable Bokeh at f/11. Well... almost. My 500mm lens for my 4x5 starts at f/11 so I guess there would be "highly visible" Bokeh at f/11 in this case. At 10:35 PM 8/30/00 +0000, Tom Bryant wrote: >Hi Luggers, > > There are lots of sweeping statements in this forum, but Mr. Brick has got >to take the cake, at least today. > >> Checking critical focus WHILE STOPPED DOWN is indeed the only guaranteed >> way to completely control sharpness and/or unsharpness of your photograph. >> It is EASY to do, once you learn how and it is taught as the basis of focus >> control in real photography schools. Brooks Institute (Santa Barbara CA), >> Art Center (LA), and RIT (Rochester NY) and I'm sure many others. > > Well, for some of the lenses of the early 20th century, perhaps, but the >focus shift caused by uncorrected spherical abberation is a thing of the past, >pretty much. With anything short of a very well equipped optical bench, you'll >not be able to detect focus shift. The plane of the focus, as set by a Leica >M rangefinder or a reflex with it's lens wide open, does not appreciably >change when the lens is stopped down. We M users would complain loudly if >this were not the case! > > This stopping down also makes things much darker. When I hit the DOF >preview on my F1, with my 50 set at, say, f/11, things just got about >64 times darker. Hard to appreciate the subtle points of bokeh in such >dim surroundings. > > I'd venture the opinion that the way to really learn to pre-visualize >is to take lots of pictures, and start to get a "feel" of how your equipment >performs in a variety of different circumstances. I'm still working at it, >and I never know how things *really* are until I've got the pix in hand. > >> You were simply babbling from an unknowledgeable position. You do not know >> what you are talking about ... You should limit your statements to those >> things that you actually know something about rather than ad-libing. > > I was going to comment at length about these, but suddenly realized that >most of you have already, with commendable restraint, done your own rants and >and been civilised enough not to post them. > > Cheers, > > Tom (The-server-is-down-with-more-time-to-read-the-LUG) > > Some other thoughts on this: > > >Any fool can take a picture, but it takes a wise person to be able to sell it. > > >A fool finds no pleasure in understanding, but delights in >airing his own opinions. > > -- Old Testament, Proverbs 18:2 > > >Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain, and most fools do. > > -- Benjamin Franklin (or Dale Carnegie?) > > >Fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so >full of doubts. > > -- Bertrand Russell