Re: [Leica] Bokeh vs. Nukeh

[John Brownlow <john@pinkheadedbug.com>]

on 28/8/00 11:41 pm, apbbeijing at apbbeijing@yahoo.com wrote:

> on 28/8/00 2:11 PM, John Brownlow at john@pinkheadedbug.com wrote:
> 
>> I think bokeh is pretty measurable. Just no-one measures it yet.
> 
> and
> 
>> You don't care about bokeh? Fine. But my point of view is that a
>> photographer should be in charge of every element of his/her craft.
> 
> Good points John but surely if it isn't measured and one needs to be in
> control of this and other unmeasured aspects of a lens performance the only
> way to do that is to use the lenses oneself rather than rely on the
> wishy-washy and simplistic assessments of a vague magazine report: as has
> been reported the out of focus rendering of any lens is affected not only by
> the specific and unmeasured 'bokeh' qualities but also focussing distance to
> subject (or non subject rather), light conditions, aperture, and other
> factors. These are conditions best judged in a reflex finder in the first
> place and in the second are so highly specific to a particular working style
> and situation as to make assessments of the out of focus image being 'nice'
> or 'harsh' misleading.

Yes, I agree. But some people on this list think such discussion is
meaningless, so I was trying to point out that bokeh is in principle
measurable, so we're not talking about angels on the heads of pins. I don't
feel I have to measure it, but some people obviously think if it can't be
measured it doesn't exist, so I was responding to that.

> 
> What is nice bokeh for one situation may be less nice for another and
> depends on taste as much as any of the other factors. Some people think the
> doughnut shape of mirror lens bokeh is cool, others find it nauseating but
> that is IMHO purely a matter of taste and the skill of the photographer to
> use it creatively. Some people even create their own custom bokeh by using
> cutouts of stars, smiley faces or whatever to make unusual highlight shapes
> in the bright highlights: fine. I don't think many if any people carry a
> mirror lens and a regular long focus lens to explore the bokeh possibilities
> of both for practical shooting let alone lenses with more subtle
> distinctions. In any case the main concern of the bokeh crowd is on a much
> subtler level: the 35/2 vs 35/2 ASPH for example.

True again. I guess my point is that knowing the bokeh of a lens may make
you more or less comfortable about using it in a particular situation. I
would not, for example, use my Voigtlander 75/2.5 wide open unless I was
forced to by the light, whereas I am very confident about using the 90/2,8,
50/1.4 and 35/1.4 asph Leica lenses, or my Canon 35/2.

> BTW is anyone you know of in the film world interested in bokeh? It must
> have more relevance there: those double edged blurred things in the
> background moving about...

I don't know about the film world but I would guess that most top class DPs
know all about it... they're like that... you should hear them talk about
filters... but if you are ever interested to see some outstandingly BAD
bokeh, watch TV news or documentaries shot on tape. Yikes.

- -- 
Johnny Deadman

http://www.pinkheadedbug.com