Re: [Leica] Jim kuhl - about dealers

["Tom Schofield" <tdschofield@email.msn.com>]

1)  I described the equipment rather than just "grading".  All of the buyers
I have sold to on ebay have remarked in feedback that equipment was as
represented or better.

2)  Please explain to me what your understanding is of  the distinction
between "Exc.+++" and "Mint-".  Let's see if you can express this in
objective criteria.  I have never spoken to anyone who could explain any
difference, objective or subjective.  Shutterbug grading systems only have
Exc.+ and Mint-.  Kuehl's grading admits that it is better than Exc.+,
although he was unwilling to pay for mint-.  Seems to me to be an artificial
distinction used as an excuse to send less than what he promised.  If he
wants to give quotes sight unseen, he should bear the risk that customers
not as well versed in "grading" might interpret the grading differently.
And, even those who make their living at it are very inconsistent.  I have
seen Exc. + from KEH that I could not tell why they don't call it LN-  (KEH
only used LN if all orgiinal box and packaging are there), and Exc.+ from
Tamarkin which had significant finish wear on the barrel.

3)  I do not consider it to be a reputable business practice to send less
than agreed without contacting me first, regardless of my "grading"
abilities.  And he did it twice.

Tom

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bergman, Mark A." <mabergm@nppd.com>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 9:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Jim kuhl - about dealers


> You say Jim dealt with you unfairly.  Some would say you misrepresented
the
> equipment.  Who are we too believe?
>
> My dealings with Jim have always been great.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Schofield [mailto:tdschofield@email.msn.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 10:44 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Leica] jim kuhl - about dealers
>
>
> Jim Kuehl dealt unfairly with me too.  Years back, I twice sold some Nikon
> things to Jim Kuehl.  In both instances I described them as accurately as
> possible over the phone.  In both instances, he claimed I misrepresented
the
> condition.  What really upset me was his practice of sending a check for
$40
> or so less than promised, without saying anything first.  He literally
just
> sent the check for the lower amount and included a note saying that the
lens
> was Exc.+++, not mint- (whatever the distinction between the two is, I
don't
> know), to justify sending me the lower amount.  When I called to complain,
> he politely said to send the check back and he would send the lens back.
I
> would still eat the postage to send it to him, as well as the lost time
and
> the fact that I would still have a lens I needed to sell, so I cashed the
> check.  I think he has that point figured out too well.  This left a bad
> taste in my mouth, especially when he did it twice in a row.  To be fair,
he
> did send the check very promptly, if for the wrong amount!
>
> My experience with KEH was very positive.  Their grading was very
> conservative.  I would be perfectly pleased with what they grade as Exc.
+.
> That was a few years ago.
>
> I have had a couple of pleasant conversations with Don Chatterton, but he
> only does VISA and I only do AMEX, so we didn't connect.
>
> Tom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Weinthal" <benwein_2000@yahoo.com>
> To: <leica-users-digest@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 4:14 PM
> Subject: [Leica] jim kuhl - about dealers
>
>
> > I can't help but to chime in here because it seems so
> > odd that this hasn't been brought up in light of the
> > current thread.
> >
> > Jim Kuhl committed fraud by selling gray market
> > cameras as new usa cameras. This is a fact. He made
> > counterfit documents to support this practice.
> >
> > He was reportedly warned by Leica and kept on doing
> > it.
> >
> > One larger reputable dealer made a big stink and they
> > finally caught him red handed doing this. This forced
> > Leica's hand.
> >
> > They stripped him of his Leica dealership and I
> > understand that he came very close to being
> > prosecuted.
> >
> > In the end Leica took mercy on him and dropped the
> > suit.
> >
> > Since then, I have personally suffered an obvious case
> > of mis grading of a 21f3.4 M lens and subsequent
> > shoddy treatment when returning the item to him. It
> > was an almost hostile reaction he made.
> >
> > It was after this aborted transaction that I
> > discovered this longer story of his fraud. I vowed
> > never to do business with this disreputable dealer
> > again. I never have again.
> >
> > I am usually just a reader of this list, but when such
> > a gross misrepresentation is being made I feel it my
> > obligation to come forth.
> >
> > I have not dealt with Don Chatterton so I can not
> > comment on him. I have decided largely that it is not
> > worth going outside B&H for most gear because of these
> > risks involved. At least I have not heard such bad
> > things of that dealer.
> >
> > Ben, MN
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>