Re: R vs Zeiss

[Godfrey DiGiorgi <ramarren@apple.com>]

My suggestion that the Leica R8 gives me more than just the Contax
as an option was on the basis that Contax cameras' design seems 
to fit what I want more than what I see from Nikon, Canon, Minolta 
etc in an SLR at the present, not to suggest that I wanted a 
"european" name or anything else. I really don't care where the cameras 
are made so much as I care how they're made and whether they work for 
me. My Leicas, for what it's worth, have been manufactured in Germany, 
Portugal, Canada and Japan. My Rolleis come from Germany and Singapore.
They've all been top notch cameras so why should I worry about it?

>Yes--but I remain unconvinced.  I believe Zeiss plays a role in putting
>together what carries their name, but the Japanese, who do know a bit about
>lens design, just can't be passive assemblers in this process.

I found the following statement from the Kyocera website illuminating: 

From Contax Frequently Asked Questions 
<http://www.kyocera.com/cameras/faq.html>

Q. CONTAX is a German company. Yet, I noticed that the CONTAX
   RTS III says made in Japan. What does this mean? 

A. CONTAX represents a trade name that is owned by CARL ZEISS.
   CARL ZEISS began as a German company in 1846. Today CARL ZEISS
   is the pre-eminent optical company in the world, with more than
   30,000 employees around the world. 

   In 1970 CARL ZEISS decided to withdraw from the camera
   manufacturing industry. They closed the legendary ZEISS IKON
   WORKS so that they could concentrate on optical production. Camera
   body production was given over to Yashica, an advanced designer and
   builder of electronic system cameras. In 1975, the first new generation
   CONTAX camera arrived, it was called the CONTAX RTS. CARL
   ZEISS has retained the CONTAX name and they continue to build
   CARL ZEISS lenses for the CONTAX. 

   Further, CARL ZEISS has, over the years, shifted much of their lens
   production to Japan. These lenses are CARL ZEISS lenses in every
   way, they just happen to be made in Japan. The country of origin
   information states the following: "This lens is made by CARL ZEISS
   FOUNDATION of Federal Republic of Germany, in Japan." 

What I read in that is the "Contax" name is licensed by Carl Zeiss to 
Kyocera for production of cameras, and Zeiss lenses are designed by Carl 
Zeiss and produced by Kyocera and at Zeiss' other manufacturing sites. 
What Zeiss' input into the design of the Contax cameras might be I 
couldn't speculate, they seem to be doing a very nice job regardless.
I am certain that Kyocera's designers, engineers, etc, collaborate with 
the Zeiss engineers when it comes to completing a lens product to be 
produced there, it wouldn't make sense not to.

Other tidbits of Contax and Zeiss history from Kyocera's point of view
can be found in their historical synopsis at 
<http://www.kyocera.com/cameras/history.html>.

(And I really must order our esteemed Zeiss Historian's book tomorrow,
 now what was the title again? :)

>>Re your other comment, "the cameras are Japanese designs".  Not the case
>>at all.  The Contax RTSIII -- arguably one of the most beautifully BUILT
>>camera bodies ever -- was designed by Porche Design Group in Germany
>>while being built by Kaocera (sic) in Japan.
>
>The Porsche Design Group designs all sorts of things, like sunglasses.  They
>do the outsides, but not the insides, of Contax cameras.  All they can take
>credit for is the shape and covering materials, as I understand it--in other
>words, they make the cameras look cool, which they do, but they do not
>design the mechanics.  

I think you're undervaluing the role of the designers in creation of a
finished product. Industrial designers like the Porsche Design Group do 
more than style the plastics. They have enormous expertise in ergonomics,
materials choices, manufacturing production process. The symbiosis between
the industrial designer and the manufacturer is very very tight. The 
insight
of the designer into details of the internals of a product, not just the
skin, is very important for a successful product. 

I work for a manufacturer of high technology products and the interaction 
of our design folks with the engineering folks is critical to both the 
style
of the machines and to how they work. 

Godfrey - Cupertino, CA, USA - ramarren@apple.com