the Marc James Small issue

[Fred Ward <fward@erols.com>]

All right.... this truly has gone on long enough. 

A week and a half ago I posted a message on here that several of you 
objected to and which more than several of you agreed with. Most of the 
favorable responses were private messages to me. All too many of the 
ones objecting to my posting seemed to be public, directed to the whole 
list. 

I have no particular problem with any of this. I stated my thoughts 
about collecting instead of using cameras and about an APO lens thread 
that had been proceeding over several days. (Please note that my posting 
said clearly that I was not commenting on the Aspheric thread, a point 
conveniently overlooked by almost all who responded.)

All the above I would like to put to rest. The message was not intended 
to be offensive or even critical. And I want to state, ³loud and clear,² 
is that I do not believe I have ever before written a personal criticism 
on this list. I believe this to be a common Internet mistake. If I have 
something personal to say, I send a private message. I do that here and 
on other lists I read. I feel I have a point of view, decades of 
photographic experience I am willing to share, and also have a perfect 
right to state an opinion (here and elsewhere). 

In addition to my comments about Leica use and collecting, I also made 
an observation that I feel was taken way out of context. My intent was 
to observe that members here do not have to worry and save their money 
to buy the very best from Leitz because the ultimate quality differences 
at the top of the lens line would not likely be reflected in daily 
pictures. I thought and think this might be helpful to some here who 
indicate they are stretching their budgets to buy the very best and most 
expensive Leitz offerings. It is my opinion that our members (including 
me) seldom need such lenses. How that offended so many still baffles me. 
But it did. I was not even remotely trying to tell people what to buy or 
how much to spend. I did suggest that coveting the best without a reason 
other than just wanting the best might be questionable. I certainly see 
now that this observation hit a note that I wish I had avoided. 

That all said, I do now regret posting the message because it has caused 
me grief and obviously caused some of you some consternation. 

But all that is nothing like my disgust and disappointment with one Marc 
James Small, who has repeatedly insulted me publicly and privately and 
has far exceeded the normal bounds of decency and politeness. 

Although I have never before made personal comments publicly on the 
Internet, I cannot sit by silently and let Marc continue his outrageous 
personal attack on me. 

I admire Marcıs information about things Leica and his willingness to 
share it. But I feel his attack-dog attitude on here is out of place and 
disruptive. Soon after I joined this list last year Marc lit into 
someone on here publicly, making some biting name-calling statements I 
thought were misplaced. I sent him a private message with the 
observation that such messages really were better sent privately, if at 
all. Nothing more than that. I just asked in a private message if Marc 
would hold down the public attacks on other members on the Leica list. I 
got back a biting personal attack, asking who appointed me ³Net Cop.² I 
asked a few photographic friends on here (again in private messages) who 
this guy was and got back responses that he was an ³off-the- wall lawyer 
in southern Virginia who should just be ignored when he was in that 
attack mode because usually he was OK and had good information.² 

I followed that advice until this week. Marcıs public message to all on 
this list said this about my posting:

>his remarks were aggressive, hostile, snobbish, and, frankly, rather >stupid.
>Fred's response was totally out of line
>His posting was bad enough on its first reading;  on re-reading, its >much worse.


I see no reason for that kind of response. If Marc disagreed with me all 
he had to do was say so, in public or private. But the abusive public 
attack was uncalled for, here or anywhere on the NET, where people are 
all to easy with harsh words anyway.  

I sent Marc a private message, the proper forum for such interchanges. I 
told him I had no problem with his disagreeing with my message or 
opinion but that I expected a public apology for his public insults. 
Instead of an apology, I got back:

>I reread it and, again, found it quite arrogant and dismissive
>on the harsh side
>this abrasive missive was so disturbing to so many of us
>you don't see the arrogance in your message
>without understanding how, well, "superior", you sounded

Marc then continued this approach to me in a second message:

>sounds pretty condemnatory to me
>Sort of a Proclamation of Your Superiority from the Mountain-top!  >Whoa, boy!  
>Fred, didn't you sprain your wrist patting yourself on the back that >way? 
>Who died and left you in charge, brother?

>And the final sentence is simple sour grapes:
>it sounds suspiciously like you simply lack the resources some others >(not me!) have to buy the latest and best and resent this.  Winston >Churchill defined socialism as "the gospel of greed" and, boy, it >sounds like this is one tome you've surely been reading a lot of >lately!

The above few lines may be the most insulting of all. How can Marc James 
Small know what resources I have, or care? My financial condition is 
certainly is none of his business. He quickly points out that his 
resources are not limited and that he can buy anything he wants. I 
suppose I should take this as a ³put down,² but instead it reads more 
like a joke. And it is still insulting. 

>rather childish nonetheless.
>What's it to you, buddy, what the other Lug'ers do?  Who died and left >you
>in charge?  
>IT'S NOT YOUR PLACE TO CRITICIZE AND CONDEMN OTHERS FOR
>THEIR CHOICES OF EQUIPMENT OR PHOTO STYLE.
>you manage to meld all your earlier themes into one:  disdain for
>those with money, disdain for the photographic choices and styles of >the other group members, disdain for what they wish to discuss.

The above thought is absurd and is now a repetitive theme. 

>your remarks are, indeed,
>"aggressive, hostile, snobbish, and, frankly, rather stupid" and " >harsh and uncharacteristic"
>I will not respond to further mail from you on this subject.


Of all the abrasive, insulting, and unacceptable comments Marc made, 
only his last is acceptable to me. I do not intend to pursue this 
further. If I decide to stay on this list and participate I intend to do 
it as I always have here and on other lists: I will make comments from 
time to time, but I will not trade personal insults in a public or 
private forum. I may write to people personally, but I will no longer 
read or respond to Marc James Smallıs vicious, condescending, arrogant, 
and outrageous personal attack style. He deserves no more attention from 
anyone, and will get none from me. 

Fred Ward